Would you trade Jo Adell and sign Nicholas Castellanos if.....

[tdawg87]

Remember when we traded Will Wilson so Arte could save 12.7 million? That was pretty neat.

[jsnpritchett]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Remember when we traded Will Wilson so Arte could save 12.7 million? That was pretty neat.

I was supportive of the trade when it happened, but, yeah, now it just looks odd.

 

[floplag]

48 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No, desperation is including Adell and Marsh.  We could have Trout, Rendon, Adell and Ohtani and lose our wild card game because we don’t have Clevinger.  That is why Clevinger is so valuable.  No one is going to say you should trade those four to get Clevinger, but that is why they have so much value.  I reluctantly make that move.  I’d prefer it be Adams over Marsh, but Cleveland would probably demand Adell or Marsh.  

Well were down to arguing degrees of desperation so, its become moot.
In my view thats a huge overpay, its that simple... you are welcome to your view.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Well were down to arguing degrees of desperation so, its become moot.
In my view thats a huge overpay, its that simple... you are welcome to your view.  

Thank you, I appreciate that.

[UndertheHalo]

Didn’t Clevinger more or less say that he didn’t like the organization ? Shouldn’t that just be the end of the Clevinger talk ? 

[Stradling]

I really like Rengifo, but where is he going to play?  I guess he could play 2nd base in 2021 if we don’t retain Simmons.  So if including him in a deal is the difference between getting a pitcher or not, then by all means include him.  Once again this is about getting a difference maker as a starter.  Suarez is not going to hold me back from making a trade for a guy like Clevinger.  He’s Jose Alvarez as a starter.  Could he be better, sure, but his stuff is just ok which means he has to have pin point control to even be a candidate for any MLB rotation. Sandoval is intriguing.  I like him a helluva lot more than Suarez.  I’d rather keep him than trade him, but once again we are talking about Clevinger.  Marsh is a stud, I expect him to be good.  But we know exactly how good Clevinger is.  If you don’t want to lose depth to get a guy like Clevinger then you have to give up the very top guys.  I mean I guess you could see if they are interested in a Fletcher, Thaiss and Suarez type of deal, but if I was Cleveland I certainly wouldn’t.  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Didn’t Clevinger more or less say that he didn’t like the organization ? Shouldn’t that just be the end of the Clevinger talk ? 

Different regime.  

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Didn’t Clevinger more or less say that he didn’t like the organization ? Shouldn’t that just be the end of the Clevinger talk ? 

Well he can say that but he's not a free agent nor does he have a no-trade clause. What's he gonna do, suck on purpose to own the libs? He'll ruin a potential big payday by doing that.

Btw we aren't getting Clevinger.

 

[Glen]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Remember when we traded Will Wilson so Arte could save 12.7 million? That was pretty neat.

 

46 minutes ago, RBM said:

And Arte had already given Will Wilson $3.7 M in June. Super cool. 

Shit happens. Sometimes things don't go according to plans (or oftentimes, for the Angels). I'm glad Cowart is gone.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Glen said:

 

Shit happens. Sometimes things don't go according to plans (or oftentimes, for the Angels). I'm glad Cowart is gone.

Me too. 

I'm also glad Cozart is gone.

[ukyah]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Different regime.  

tell clevinger that.

he wasn't talking about regimes in his video. he just said angels. 

remember, he's a professional athlete. so, he's basically mentally retarded.

[Claude]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I was supportive of the trade when it happened, but, yeah, now it just looks odd.

 

It was Arte making sure that his budget will continue to stay around $160M. Cozart had to go so it was a good move for the team. 

[ukyah]

10 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Sure I can. I just did.

Would you prefer Wheeler? Strasburg? Top pitching is expensive, even with guys who are risky. Much more so than position players, generally.

Rendon was a very solid deal. High aav, but the offset of years makes up for it, imo. Harper, Machado, etc.

crash and burn, mav.

sure we'll use the highest paid pitcher in baseball, tied for the highest AAV of all players, as our example of what it costs to get pitchers in the FA market. we'll just ignore the fact that he's paid 80 million more than the next highest paid pitcher, strasburg or that he's paid 206 million more than the next highest paid pitcher in the FA market this year, wheeler.

why be so intentionally obtuse? most of the FA starting pitching market for the top starters this year was around 17-22 million per year.

edit: also, my original post was a joke about the ease of acquiring FA pitchers because we failed so spectacularly at it.

[Jay]

I don't think Clevinger is a fit.

 

[UndertheHalo]

Yes, I am under no illusion that the Angels will get Mike Clevinger. 
 

[tdawg87]

I think we're getting Clevinger. Thaiss, Ward, Barria, and Bedrosian is a lot to give up but you gotta give up talent to get talent.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I was supportive of the trade when it happened, but, yeah, now it just looks odd.

That freed up payroll could come in handy any time this winter, this spring training, or this season, should we need to take on some salary and save some prospects. 

Also cleared up a spot on the 40, a spot on the 26, and playing time for our infielders. 

[Chuck]

FTR, I don't want this scenario to play out. 

I'm all for adding pitching obviously but in no way do I want to trade Adell. Even if we acquired a legit ace, I'd be extremely bittersweet over it all. 

Eppler needs to get creative and make some smart moves to acquire pitching without giving up Adell or even Marsh if he's able to.

[Claude]

14 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

FTR, I don't want this scenario to play out. 

I'm all for adding pitching obviously but in no way do I want to trade Adell. Even if we acquired a legit ace, I'd be extremely bittersweet over it all. 

Eppler needs to get creative and make some smart moves to acquire pitching without giving up Adell or even Marsh if he's able to.

Should’ve traded Simmons for a SP and signed left handed hitting Didi Gregorious. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by RendZone

[Pancake Bear]

32 minutes ago, ukyah said:

crash and burn, mav.

sure we'll use the highest paid pitcher in baseball, tied for the highest AAV of all players, as our example of what it costs to get pitchers in the FA market. we'll just ignore the fact that he's paid 80 million more than the next highest paid pitcher, strasburg or that he's paid 206 million more than the next highest paid pitcher in the FA market this year, wheeler.

why be so intentionally obtuse? most of the FA starting pitching market for the top starters this year was around 17-22 million per year.

edit: also, my original post was a joke about the ease of acquiring FA pitchers because we failed so spectacularly at it.

I used multiple examples of high end pitching. That’s all that’s relevant here. Who cares what low end pitching costs? We need high end pitching. 

Who are these top starters getting 17-22 million? Wheeler? Generally considered a high contract based on early predictions. Keuchel? He’s not a high end pitcher. Ditto Bumgarner. Ryu? He has serious red flags and the contract was still considered high by many. 

I used the example of Cole because he got shockingly close to Trout money despite having nowhere near the track record of Trout *and* having the inherent risk of being a pitcher, which is why they usually get shorter term than position players. His contract demonstrates how much high end starting pitching is valued right now. As does Strasburg, even with the health risks he presents. As does Wheeler to a lesser extent. Guys making 17-22 are generally not high end pitchers and the ones that are have reasons they only cost that much.

[ettin]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Remember when we traded Will Wilson so Arte could save 12.7 million? That was pretty neat.

 

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I was supportive of the trade when it happened, but, yeah, now it just looks odd.

 

Zack Cozart seemed destined to be traded and for another team to take some if not all of his salary in trade for prospects as I talked about in the Primer Series.

This was due first and foremost to the fact that the Angels would not want to play him and the fact that we are deep on MIF options, particularly more so if we ended up signing a new 3B which we did do.

So if you are going to trade a player like that and you are constrained at some level on payroll, the best thing to do is try to get an acquiring team to eat some or all of his salary.

Yes Will Wilson was a #1 prospect but as you saw his first season in the Low Minors was not impressive at all and the Angels have evaluators who saw his first season and I think they saw something they didn't care for and thought it would be okay to cut loose, particularly because we have other good MIF prospects in the pipeline.

Bottom line is that Cozart had to go, Eppler knew that he needed to free up payroll space based on the moves he is trying to make this off-season (the entire front office should have had these scenarios laid out on how the off-season could play out), and Will Wilson was a prospect that, despite his top pedigree, Eppler and his staff felt could be dangled to make a full-salary Zack trade probable.

Not upset with this, it was going to happen with one or more of our prospects no matter what happened and the Giants were willing to gamble with the trade in what is a likely down year for them as part of a short rebuild.

Other teams could have jumped at this like the Tigers, Orioles, Marlins, etc., so Eppler probably had a limited set of non-competitive teams to choose from and this was the lowest ask in his eyes.

[tdawg87]

I'm not upset with it I just think it was odd. I'm happy to be free of Cozart but I'd rather keep the prospect capital and simply release Cozart. 

But if 12.7 million is that important to the overall figures, I guess we'll just have to see how it works out.

I mean, maybe the Angels soured on Wilson but surely he'd be a nice piece in a trade, no?

Whatever. Ultimately it's not a big deal. Wilson wasn't a great prospect and if the freed up money ends up helping us out then great.

[failos]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm not upset with it I just think it was odd. I'm happy to be free of Cozart but I'd rather keep the prospect capital and simply release Cozart. 

But if 12.7 million is that important to the overall figures, I guess we'll just have to see how it works out.

I mean, maybe the Angels soured on Wilson but surely he'd be a nice piece in a trade, no?

Whatever. Ultimately it's not a big deal. Wilson wasn't a great prospect and if the freed up money ends up helping us out then great.

But Scotty said Will Wilson is a bust

[tdawg87]

Scotty can use his tongue to moisten my taint.

Also Doc didn't like him much either, and he's not an antisemite.

[failos]