Danny Salazar

[Lou]

we're not adding 3 solid starters this offseason. 

[CanadianHalo]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

maybe that's the difference then because I seriously doubt Eppler has written Heaney off and plans to get a third starter in case he's injured.  

they are very much counting on him to be the guy he was in 2018.  

I also don't think they're gonna add 52m in payroll.  

finally, if they were going to spend that much, I'd rather have a good catcher than a guy like Quintana

Yeah... and I’m guessing you’re right about how they view Heaney and I believe it will be our downfall. 
 

Guess we’ll see

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

we're not adding 3 solid starters this offseason. 

certainly not three that all cost over 10m per year each.  

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

certainly not three that all cost over 10m per year each.  

yep, no chance. 

[Docwaukee]

Just now, CanadianHalo said:

Yeah... and I’m guessing you’re right about how they view Heaney and I believe it will be our downfall. 
 

Guess we’ll see

I think the PTSD from 2019 is still in full effect on all of our internal candidates.  Even if Heaney doesn't go back to his 2018 form, there is more help from Barria, Canning, Suarez and Sandoval than people think.  

[Stradling]

29 minutes ago, Lou said:

we're not adding 3 solid starters this offseason. 

If we do then one of them won’t be Cole. Wheeler, Keuchel and Gibson could be obtainable.  

[Lou]

I would say we get 2 starters to go with Ohtani, Heaney and Canning. The others will battle for fill-in spots. 

[wopphil]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

we're just not gonna add three reliable arms from outside the org.  Eppler has already said as much that he's targeting two.  That third guy, if there is one, is likely to be a project or a leftover at a minimum.  

Then we won't compete. Canning, Ohtani and Heaney wont provide enough innings in the 3 through 5 slots, and Peters, Suarez, Barria and Pena should be depth pieces only (not counted on to make 20 to 25 percent of the team's starts).

To have a realistic chance of competing, the rotation needs to look something like this: (1) Cole; (2) Bumgarner/Wheeler; (3) Ohtani; (4) Heaney; (5) Porcello; (6) Canning. Anything short of that and the team is again golfing in Hawaii during October.

Remember, one of the pieces we bring in merely replaces Skaggs.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, wopphil said:

Then we won't compete. Canning, Ohtani and Heaney wont provide enough innings in the 3 through 5 slots, and Peters, Suarez, Barria and Pena should be depth pieces only (not counted on to make 20 to 25 percent of the team's starts).

To have a realistic chance of competing, the rotation needs to look something like this: (1) Cole; (2) Bumgarner/Wheeler; (3) Ohtani; (4) Heaney; (5) Porcello; (6) Canning. Anything short of that and the team is again golfing in Hawaii during October.

Remember, one of the pieces we bring in merely replaces Skaggs.

Do you think in order to compete your 3-5 guys have to average 150 plus innings?  I see no reason they can’t all be between 130-160 innings.  

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, wopphil said:

Then we won't compete. Canning, Ohtani and Heaney wont provide enough innings in the 3 through 5 slots, and Peters, Suarez, Barria and Pena should be depth pieces only (not counted on to make 20 to 25 percent of the team's starts).

To have a realistic chance of competing, the rotation needs to look something like this: (1) Cole; (2) Bumgarner/Wheeler; (3) Ohtani; (4) Heaney; (5) Porcello; (6) Canning. Anything short of that and the team is again golfing in Hawaii during October.

Remember, one of the pieces we bring in merely replaces Skaggs.

remember.  we didn't have Ohtani last year.   So he's essentially Skaggs replacement and he's better.  

that's gonna cost 55-60m per year of added payroll and we haven't added any help at catching.  

You could be right about how adding two won't be enough.  I'm a little more hopeful of our in house guys I guess.  

I also wouldn't expect Cole AND another top tier guy.  

[wopphil]

We can get away with two guys if they are Cole and Wheeler and they give us 210 and 180 innings, respectively. And if Canning, Ohtani and Heaney stay mostly healthy, making 75 starts between them and averaging 140 to 150 innings, then we compete.

But neither of these scenarios is happening. 

I am not saying you guys are wrong about the Angels' plans. I, also, expect them to bring in only two pitchers. But I dont think that will be enough.

[wopphil]

41 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Do you think in order to compete your 3-5 guys have to average 150 plus innings?  I see no reason they can’t all be between 130-160 innings.  

I agree. But I see no chance we get even two of our 3 through 5 candidates to give us 130+ innings, let alone three guys doing it.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, wopphil said:

We can get away with two guys if they are Cole and Wheeler and they give us 210 and 180 innings, respectively. And if Canning, Ohtani and Heaney stay mostly healthy, making 75 starts between them and averaging 140 to 150 innings, then we compete.

But neither of these scenarios is happening. 

I am not saying you guys are wrong about the Angels' plans. I, also, expect them to bring in only two pitchers. But I dont think that will be enough.

if Cole and Weaver each make 30 starts and do what you've said and Canning, Ohtani and Heaney do what you've said, that's 840 innings with an avg of 6.2ip per start.  If you avg. 4ip in the remaining 27 starts, that's 948 ip from our starters.  

That would have led all of baseball this year.  

I think you are over estimating how many innings a rotation needs to pitch in order for a team to be successful.  

If you get two guys that avg 190, 120 from ohtani in 22 starts, you have made up a huge deficit from last year.  

It was just so bad that I think people are thinking we need so much more than we really do.  As an example, the 2017 rotation wasn't very good and the top innings guys were at 181, 142, 117, 113.  And the team finished 20th in starter innings.  

If you don't believe that Canning, Heaney or Sandoval are very good then I get it.  but two adding two guys and Ohtani will make a huge difference.  

[wopphil]

For the record, I dont think it is unrealistic to want the team to target Cole (35 per), Wheeler (20 per), and Boyd (5 per). Yes, it is a ton of money, but it still keeps us under the tax threshold (and yes, I understand the difference between actual payroll and CBA payroll, as well as the team's approach to both).

If the team wants to win the west, radical moves are necessary. Incremental improvement is unlikely to be enough.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

remember.  we didn't have Ohtani last year.   So he's essentially Skaggs replacement and he's better.  

that's gonna cost 55-60m per year of added payroll and we haven't added any help at catching.  

You could be right about how adding two won't be enough.  I'm a little more hopeful of our in house guys I guess.  

I also wouldn't expect Cole AND another top tier guy.  

And he wont put up more than 150innings.

 

We dont need a 3 and a bullpen day start from him.

 

He's coming back from TJ surgery and should not be counted on to put up consistent innings and quality starts back to until the 2nd half of the season.