In Defense of Eppler

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, Calzone 2 said:

I do remember how happy people were when Weaver got his 20th win in 2012.

So meaningless?

Window-dressing. It looks good, its fun, but it isn't all that important in determining a pitcher's value - at least taken on its own. There are many other stats to look at first.

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Was actually surprised to see how poorly he's pitched, I had not really looked until you brought him up.   In fact, sort of surprising to see it but as a whole the Yankees rotation has been pretty mediocre.  The only starter with an above average ERA+ is Domingo German.

Tanaka -- 4.78 - 92
Happ -- 5.24 - 84
German -- 3.98 - 111
Paxton -- 4.61 - 96
Sabathia -- 4.78 - 92

Doesnt make me feel better about our shit show rotation but, surprising numbers given their record.

The Yankees staff has been subpar all season. They’re usually bailed out by their amazing bullpen and of course their juggernaut offense. I don’t think they can beat the Astros in the postseason. Their starters can’t get it done. Houston can shut them down. 

[Claude]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Window-dressing. It looks good, its fun, but it isn't all that important in determining a pitcher's value - at least taken on its own. There are many other stats to look at first.

20 game winners are a thing of the past. The game has changed so winning 20 games is a good personal achievement. 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, mymerlincat said:

It's cute seeing people like you using "well someone else did it too!" as an excuse for Eppler.  To answer your question, if he comes back strong (he will come back in a month or so which, along with ST, should give him time to shake off the dust of being injured) and helps the Padres push for (and possibly make) the playoffs, while being the vet to help the prospects adjust to the majors (and giving them depth so they aren't forced to throw them to the majors prematurely), then yes, I would say it's worth it. 

But you are missing the point of what Lou said.   

GRich has only made 28 starts (138.2 innings) in the past nearly 4 seasons, that is UNDER 25% of what a healthy starter will pitch over a 4 year period. 

Let that sink in, UNDER 25%.

Even if he is somehow healthy in 2020, it is best to limit his innings.    That isn't worth $15 million.  Then again, the Padres also gave Machado $300 million, to a guy whose maturity is a big question mark and really has only put together 3 really good seasons in his career. 

[Mark PT]

19 hours ago, Lou said:

Wrong.

And there's a difference between excuses and reality. 

I agree with you Lou. Injuries to every starting pitcher and this is supposed to be a normal occurrence? Other teams can absorb injuries due to the strength of their minor league system. The Angels had the worst in baseball. Eppler has improved that. But either way, the Angels had too many key injuries. 

[beatlesrule]

Why is Happ being compared? Why another Yankees comparison? The Happ deal hasn't hurt their team at all. He is not worth his contract so far and the Yankees didn't miss a beat. The terrible contracts of Harvey, Cahill and Allen did hurt the Angels so it's worse than Happ for this year. Time will tell if they lose out on the playoffs the next 2 years because of Happ sucking. I highly doubt it though.

Someone else brought up Miley and his 4.5 million he signed for. Ever consider the fact that he chose to sign with a MUCH better team than the Angels? I am sure if the Angels offered Miley a contract, he would want more than 4.5 million and it might have gotten to the point where Eppler needs to overspend to get FA to play in Anaheim. Hence why he gave lame duds with upside more money than they deserve.

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Why is Happ being compared? Why another Yankees comparison? 

Because Calzone brought him up in his Eppler bashing. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, mymerlincat said:

It's cute seeing people like you using "well someone else did it too!" as an excuse for Eppler.  To answer your question, if he comes back strong (he will come back in a month or so which, along with ST, should give him time to shake off the dust of being injured) and helps the Padres push for (and possibly make) the playoffs, while being the vet to help the prospects adjust to the majors (and giving them depth so they aren't forced to throw them to the majors prematurely), then yes, I would say it's worth it. 

Isn’t that pretty much the exact definition of what the market is?

Richards had been injured for all or part of the previous 5 years and was unlikely be able to pitch at all in the upcoming season. 

And he got $15M.

[Lou]

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, cvdog said:

Signing complete failures like Harvey, Cahill, Stratton, Allen, Bour etc would be considered more than "kinda his fault"....

Agreed, but those aren't the only reasons the Angels have been mediocre this year. Their best pitcher died mid-season, Heaney has been injured and struggled, their second and third best position players have missed a ton of games, etc.

[Lou]

Has anyone mentioned Eppler's signing of Cahill, Harvey and Allen? 

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Lou said:

I'm not scared

But it should

[Duren, Duren]

20 wins may/has become as rare as .400 hitters. And not because of lack of skill or physical endurance. 

 Simply not something really prioritized or even desired in current baseball philosophy. It's more mindset than actual capacity to do it.

In fact, players are bigger, stronger, healthier, better coached than ever before. Yet in The past you had scrawny bean poles and overweight thirty plus year olds consistently winning in the high teens and beyond. Even in 154 game seasons. 

And careers lasted as long if not longer for many of those workhorses. Despite primitive medical options. 

When expectations are set and the psyche conditioned to conform that way no one is allowed to challenge current conventional wisdom. The shrinking few who have the most starts and innings are seen as freaks rather than just strong willed and motivated. 

It helps greatly to be on a very good team to potentially win 20, but many pitchers won in that range even on lesser teams. They also lost in double digits but that goes with the territory and team.

The longer you've been around, the more you realize that trends come and go. But everything is relative to the specific era. However the body of a starting pitcher today should be more than capable of pitching 200 plus innings. And be in position for high win totals consistently. 

Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Nolan Ryan, and dozens more threw as fast as anyone today. They played for many years without being micro managed and slaves to a pitch count. They knew how to pitch, pace themselves, understand situational strategy. 

Teach resiliency and self reliance along with other technical things. The robotic mechanization of bullpen use destroys a real interesting dimension of a ball game. Focus on how the starters finesse themselves to go deep in a game. Today five innings is considered a moral victory.