Angels Deadline Deals: Yes, No, Maybe

[Docwaukee]

As the deadline approaches, there's a lot swirling around for the Halos.  Do they trade?  Do they stand pat?  Do they add?  

I think the latter is the least likely unless it's a back end starter for cash or a low level prospect.  The most likely is standing pat as the death of Tyler Skaggs and the clubhouse dynamic also plays a major role.  

But what are the parameters for making a deal?  For moving big league players for prospects/future value?   It's going to be different for every player in question but I thought it would be interesting to take a look at a few?  Also, the assumption here is that the Angels are far enough back to consider selling off whatever they have.  I think it's a safe bet that if they are within 5 games of the 2nd WC and above .500, they won't sell.  

Kole Calhoun - the most obvious and most talked about because he's potentially a FA at seasons end.  The team holds a 14m option which is unlikely to be exercised and would cost a mil to buyout.  There's still some residual concern about him relative to his 2018 although 2019 has erased most of that.  He's currently a well above average everyday player who is an excellent defender in RF and can spell CF and 1b.   If the Angels are sellers, it doesn't make much sense to keep him unless they consider the outside chance of picking up his option.  With Adell coming and others like Goodwin, Herm etc in the mix, that seems unlikely at 14m.  Could they keep him at a lesser amount?  Sure.  

I think the Yes is Patrick Sandoval equivalent or higher.  Yet because of how well liked he is and the clubhouse circumstances, they might be inclined to keep him unless the 'yes' is met as opposed to the maybe.  

some options:

ATL:  Jaseel De La Cruz - 22yo AA RHP.  Mid 90's fastball with plus slider and feel for change up. Alex Jackson - 23yo C at AAA with good raw power.  Ok behind the plate.  Tucker Davidson - LHP at AA.  Very similar to Sandoval with low 90's fb and a plus curve.  Patrick Weigel, Thomas Burrows both have upside.  Kyle Muller - AA lefty.  Another guy similar to Sandoval.  Above the guys mentioned, you start to get into ATL's top 10 which means borderline top 100.  Any two of those mentioned would be a Yes.  

CLE - Eric Haase - a 26 yo C prospect at the lower end of the CLE system.  Good raw power and good catcher.   Aaron Civale - RHP.  24 years old with a plus slider/cutter but low 90's FB.  Nick Sandlin - RHP.  22yo smallish guy with low to mid 90's.  Zach Plesac - AAA RHer solid mid to back end starter potential.  beyond that is the CLE top 10.  Ethan Hankins would be my #1 option for Kole.  Bid bodied RHer with a power fastball and potential plus change.  

PHI - Deivy Grullon - 23yo C with a n .870 ops in AAA and a cannon arm.  profiles as a backup C.  David Parkinson - LHP at AA.  Swing/back end profile.  Francisco Morales - big RHe in A ball.  lots of projection.  Enyel De Los Santons - AAA RHP with low to mid 90's.  plus change.  

next up to consider: relievers.  

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

One more Buttrey type acquisition for 2020-2025 would of course be very nice.    

[AngelStew43]

Just guessing, but I think one of Calhoun or Upton will be dealt.  I know, Upton has a no-trade clause.  But, the team will be looking to make room for Adell, Marsh, Walsh, and Hermosillo.  

I could see Upton going to Boston or NYY in a deal that would bring back a controllable young arm or two.  Or, a Clint Frazier type.  Someone who is blocked with their current organization, but could thrive with regular playing time.

[jordan]

Eppler should be using this measuring stick about buying or selling, “are the Angels better than the Indians, A’s, Red Sox?”  If you look only at SP, Angels definitely cannot match these teams. The Angels bullpen can hang with these teams, and the Angels offense can definitely hold its own, if not excel, to these teams. But I’m afraid the starting pitching is just too big of an issue to overcome these teams. I think Angels are closer standing pat or selling.  Definitely not buying. 

[totdprods]

I'd be very surprised if Upton was dealt, or even shopped. I think a big reason he waived his NTC to come here and opted to re-sign here was because of the stability and permanence.

As we saw following Tyler's passing, MLB players are a brotherhood beyond jerseys, and I think the Angels have really promoted themselves within that community as an org that is very player-focused and player-friendly, welcoming...

They don't manipulate service time. They don't base all of their decisions purely on data and formulas. They stick with vets a little longer than they should. They buy vets a little more often than most. They settle before arbitration. They've convinced Weaver to take a discount, Ohtani to come here, Pujols to sign here for less money, and kept the best baseball player of this generation from testing FA. 

For those reasons, I don't think they'll shop Upton, and I think they'll strongly consider retaining Calhoun this year and even next. 

[greginpsca]

The only trades i think could be made would be for Calhoun or relief pitchers that will be out of options next season. And Garcia, who is on an expiring contract.

[Claude]

28 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Just guessing, but I think one of Calhoun or Upton will be dealt.  I know, Upton has a no-trade clause.  But, the team will be looking to make room for Adell, Marsh, Walsh, and Hermosillo.  

I could see Upton going to Boston or NYY in a deal that would bring back a controllable young arm or two.  Or, a Clint Frazier type.  Someone who is blocked with their current organization, but could thrive with regular playing time.

Hopefully Upton. I think he’s going to age really fast and the injuries will begin to stack up one at a time. 

[beatlesrule]

Lol. We have so many different trade threads. I still maintain Cam and some other relievers are trade worthy not just Calhoun. The Dodgers especially are looking for relief help. Get Cam the hell out of Anaheim finally for the Love of everything that is holy!

[Pancake Bear]

30 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'd be very surprised if Upton was dealt, or even shopped. I think a big reason he waived his NTC to come here and opted to re-sign here was because of the stability and permanence.

As we saw following Tyler's passing, MLB players are a brotherhood beyond jerseys, and I think the Angels have really promoted themselves within that community as an org that is very player-focused and player-friendly, welcoming...

They don't manipulate service time. They don't base all of their decisions purely on data and formulas. They stick with vets a little longer than they should. They buy vets a little more often than most. They settle before arbitration. They've convinced Weaver to take a discount, Ohtani to come here, Pujols to sign here for less money, and kept the best baseball player of this generation from testing FA. 

For those reasons, I don't think they'll shop Upton, and I think they'll strongly consider retaining Calhoun this year and even next. 

Mostly agree. But they’re fast tracking Adell. It’s highly unlikely Adell will be in the minors still all of next year. So unless someone moves to 1B, one of those two - most likely Calhoun - will be on the way out at some point in the next sixish months. 

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Mostly agree. But they’re fast tracking Adell. It’s highly unlikely Adell will be in the minors still all of next year. So unless someone moves to 1B, one of those two - most likely Calhoun - will be on the way out at some point in the next sixish months. 

Totally agree with this, which is why now the time to see if we can move Calhoun in exchange for pitching help.

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Mostly agree. But they’re fast tracking Adell. It’s highly unlikely Adell will be in the minors still all of next year. So unless someone moves to 1B, one of those two - most likely Calhoun - will be on the way out at some point in the next sixish months. 

I have no doubt Adell plays in the bigs next year, but there’s still compelling reasons why they shouldn’t open the year with him in RF. 

• He doesn’t need to be protected on the 40-man yet, and our 40-man is already tight with many players to add this December
• His presence in AAA to start the year gives the Angels a huge safety net to call up if Upton, Trout, Ohtani, Pujols, or Calhoun (if retained) get hurt - arguably all of those guys are slated to be ‘more important’ to competing in 2020 than Adell currently is, simply be cause he’s unproven. 
• Calhoun is probably good for a .750-.800 OPS right out of the gate. If we’re serious about competing - especially if were going after someone like Cole - that’s not something you part with easily.
• Clubhouse chemistry given all that’s happened.
• We’re shedding $30m this offseason even if we’ll keep Kole, and that should be enough to address our only real dire need - an ace SP or two  good vets arms.
• Calhoun’s trade value now is probably not dramatically different from what it would be next July, when he could still be traded to open playing time for Adell if needed. I’m also not seeing many teams who have money to burn, a need in OF, and spare impact MLB-ready surplus pitching they’d spin off towards a potential competitor.

On paper there’s plenty reasoning to move Kole now and open up playing time for Adell but there’s a lot of other variables to consider. 

Depth is a great thing to have. Look at how the Dodgers, Astros, and Yankees seemingly have 5 legit, above-average everyday OFers at any given time. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by totdprods

[Pancake Bear]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I have no doubt Adell plays in the bigs next year, but there’s still compelling reasons why they shouldn’t open the year with him in RF. 

• He doesn’t need to be protected on the 40-man yet, and our 40-man is already tight with many players to add this December
• His presence in AAA to start the year gives the Angels a huge safety net to call up if Upton, Trout, Ohtani, Pujols, or Calhoun (if retained) get hurt - arguably all of those guys are slated to be ‘more important’ to competing in 2020 than Adell currently is, simply be cause he’s unproven. 
• Calhoun is probably good for a .750-.800 OPS right out of the gate. If we’re serious about competing - especially if were going after someone like Cole - that’s not something you part with easily.
• Clubhouse chemistry given all that’s happened.
• We’re shedding $30m this offseason even if we’ll keep Kole, and that should be enough to address our only real dire need - an ace SP or two  good vets arms
• Calhoun’s trade value now is probably not dramatically different from what it would be next July, when he could still be traded to open playing time for Adell if needed.

On paper there’s plenty reasoning to move Kole now and open up playing time for Adell but there’s a lot of other variables to consider. 

Depth is a great thing to have. Look at how the Dodgers, Astros, and Yankees seemingly have 5 legit, above-average everyday OFers at any given time. 

I could see them feasibly moving someone (Upton?) to 1B, or trading Calhoun in the offseason. Both of those scenarios are more likely to me than Adell not getting called up until July next season. May? Possibly. But missing most of another full season when there was speculation he could be up late last season? Minors have little more to teach him. It’s a waste to keep him down there for another year. 

[UndertheHalo]

The comments I’ve seen from Justin Upton lead me to believe there’s almost no scenario where he’ll agree to a trade.  And that’s fine with me.  Man.   Some of you guys forget real quick how long it took the Angels to get a good LF.  Lol every time they win a few games people act like the Angels have all kinds good options.  

I also think that there’s not really a lot of merit to the idea that he’s going to age any worse then anyone else.  I don’t think there’s any substantial evidence that he’s aging badly at all.  Turf toe is a random injury that basically any athlete could get screwed over by.  It’s not evidence of health risk. Upton seems like he remains a fairy safe bet to be a better then solid middle of the order bat for the next several years.  Far less of risky proposition in terms of relying on performance then Kole Calhoun IMO.  I really don’t understand the meh sentiment towards him that lots of people have.  Justin Upton is a really good player. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

I could see them feasibly moving someone (Upton?) to 1B, or trading Calhoun in the offseason. Both of those scenarios are more likely to me than Adell not getting called up until July next season. May? Possibly. But missing most of another full season when there was speculation he could be up late last season? Minors have little more to teach him. It’s a waste to keep him down there for another year. 

Trout got a taste with the team, didn’t do much his first year, and then started the next year in AAA, mostly due to missing ST. That’s not terribly different from what Adell’s timeline would be if he started at AAA in this scenario. 

Adell has all of 46 games and 230 PA in AA so far. He’s crushing it but that’s not even a half-season at AA yet.

If anyone gets hurt, and of those five, it’s likely, Adell steps in and the Angels don’t miss a beat. Remove Calhoun and move Adell up, we’re back to having a Brian Goodwin/Matt Thaiss/Jarrett Parker/Taylor Ward trying to match what’s lost.

Edited July 16, 2019 by totdprods

[UndertheHalo]

Also, even if Adell gets a starting job next year and is a reasonable everyday player (decent chance) and Kole Calhoun departs somehow (also decent chance) that leaves the Angels with Brian Goodwin and Mike Hermosillo/Jered Walsh/Taylor Ward (?) as dedicated OF depth.  That’s fine.  But it’s not spectacular or anything.  

Edited July 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, even if Adell gets a starting job next year and is a reasonable everyday player (decent chance) and Kole Calhoun departs somehow (also decent chance) that leaves the Angels with Brian Goodwin and Mike Hermosillo/Matt Walsh/Taylor Ward (?) as dedicated OF depth.  That’s fine.  But it’s not spectacular or anything.  

Yeah, by no means am I saying Adell as the 2020 starting RF is a bad thing or hurts our chances - we do still have decent depth. 

I’m just a little uncertain about penciling in a guy without even a full season of AA as the starting RF, especially if we’re making a big win-now move like signing Gerrit Cole or other top arms. I don’t see that Adell gives us any real better chance over Calhoun gives us in what would be Adell’s rookie year *unless* the Angels really need that $14m. And they might. But they do have $30m to play with still.

[Pancake Bear]

5 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Trout got a taste with the team, didn’t do much his first year, and then started the next year in AAA, mostly due to missing ST. That’s not terribly different from what Adell’s timeline would be if he started at AAA in this scenario. 

Adell has all of 46 games and 230 PA in AA so far. He’s crushing it but that’s not even a half-season at AA yet.

If anyone gets hurt, and of those five, it’s likely, Adell steps in and the Angels don’t miss a beat. Remove Calhoun and move Adell up, we’re back to having a Brian Goodwin/Matt Thaiss/Jarrett Parker/Taylor Ward trying to match what’s lost.

Yeah, and compare his trajectory to other highly touted prospects like Harper, or more recently Acuna and Soto. There’s literally not a single good reason Adell shouldn’t be in the majors for all or most of 2020. Unless there’s an injury, I dunno if they’ll bring him up this season, but he really doesn’t need more than the rest of this year in the minors. It’s pointless. 

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Yeah, and compare his trajectory to other highly touted prospects like Harper, or more recently Acuna and Soto. There’s literally not a single good reason Adell shouldn’t be in the majors for all or most of 2020. Unless there’s an injury, I dunno if they’ll bring him up this season, but he really doesn’t need more than the rest of this year in the minors. It’s pointless. 

All of those reasons above were bad?

[Pancake Bear]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also, even if Adell gets a starting job next year and is a reasonable everyday player (decent chance) and Kole Calhoun departs somehow (also decent chance) that leaves the Angels with Brian Goodwin and Mike Hermosillo/Matt Walsh/Taylor Ward (?) as dedicated OF depth.  That’s fine.  But it’s not spectacular or anything.  

Having Calhoun or Upton as the fourth outfield would be a waste of resources. Goodwin has been more than adequate. Getting a fourth OF isn’t hard. It’s one thing if we’re talking about trying to work in all of them getting playing time and throwing in AB’s at 1B or DH, but keeping Adell down as just an injury replacement is a shockingly stupid idea. Thank God you guys aren’t in charge. 

[Pancake Bear]

Just now, totdprods said:

All of those reasons above were bad?

For this season, no. For next season, yeah, they’re pretty idiotic. 

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

For this season, no. For next season, yeah, they’re pretty idiotic. 

So, if the Angels set big expectations on the year, and sign Cole, and dump Calhoun, and Adell does what most prospects do and struggles his first half-season or so, and the Angels lose a big hitter for a chunk of time, and the Angels are more hesitant to swing a deal because they lost a prospect to the Rule V and had to shift every other young players expectations higher because they parted ways with a productive bat to hurry Adell along a couple months, it’s idiotic?

Also, Harper, Trout, Acuna, Soto, Vlad Jr....none of them made their big league debut on Opening Day despite their trajectory.

Edited July 16, 2019 by totdprods

[UndertheHalo]

I think it really just depends on what the return is on Calhoun.  If they’re going to get like one 45  grade prospect for him then for sure keep him around.  I’d like to see Adell take over in LF next year and like I said  I think there’s a decent chance it works out but I do get what @totdprods is saying about the risk aspects associated with that.  

I do think that shedding his salary probably lets the Angels use that money in areas that are more critical.  Anyway, this stuff is up for debate.  Which is why above I sort of found it laughable that there’s some thought that maybe they should look to move Upton.  They need Upton.  

Anyway, I’m more worried about 3B then OF assuming Upton is healthy. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Pancake Bear]

Just now, totdprods said:

So, if the Angels set big expectations on the year, and sign Cole, and dump Calhoun, and Adell does what most prospects do and struggles his first half-season or so, and the Angels lose a big hitter for a chunk of time, and the Angels are more hesitant to swing a deal because they lost a prospect to the Rule V and had to shift every other young players expectations higher because they parted ways with a productive bat to hurry Adell along a couple months, it’s idiotic?

Also, Harper, Trout, Acuna, Soto, Vlad Jr....none of them made their big league debut on Opening Day despite their trajectory. 

How much minor league service did each have before he was called up compared to Adell?

Also, heck, why don’t we just sign an extra couple of aces so we can keep Canning in the minors for depth. I mean, we obviously have boundless resources. 

[totdprods]

If there’s an argument to be made, it’s that the Angels will absolutely need that $14m this offseason to improve the club. I don’t think anyone can truly say that Adell playing over Calhoun the first 25-40 games of 2020 is going to be the difference maker. If he’s that good, the Angels will find room for him the first moment there’s a need, and I just don’t see that there is a compelling need to change RF quite yet, aside from the money it’d free up. Which is absolutely a possibility.

Edited July 16, 2019 by totdprods

[Pancake Bear]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

I think it really just depends on what the return is on Calhoun.  If they’re going to get like one 45  grade prospect for him then for sure keep him around.  I’d like to see Adell take over in LF next year and like I said  I think there’s a decent chance it works out but I do get what @totdprods is saying about the risk aspects associated with that.  

I do think that shedding his salary probably lets the Angels use that money in areas that are more critical.  Personally, I’m more worried about 3B. 

The issue is less the return and more a) the roster spot and b) the salary. You could make the first one work by using 1B/Dh as an extra source of AB’s, theoretically, but you could also potentially use the salary to better use as well. 

Let me reiterate: I’m skeptical Kole is moved before the offseason. Given Skaggs’ passing and the locker room closeness, I don’t think they just casually move him. But unless they’re convinced Adell isn’t ready (no sign of that), he needs to be up with the big club. Upton isn’t really moveable. I like Kole a lot, but he still clearly the odd man out if/when it comes to it. And based on his struggles at the plate in recent years, there’s good reason to question him beyond this year, anyway.