Baseball Expansion thoughts?

[LAA Road Tripper]

I think a radical realignment is a bad idea. Let's face it, if baseball were introduced to the public in the 21st century, it would be a second or third tier sport. It's a leisurely game that relies on nuance in a society where nuance has little value. No other sport in America is supported by its legacy and tradition like baseball. No other sport honors its statistics so highly either. To steamroll the existing leagues would detract much more than the sport would gain in my opinion. Although I'm not a particular fan of pitchers hitting, I actually like the fact that the NL hasn't adopted the DH if only to hold on to one last vestige of differentiation.

So the trick is how does the sport leverage its history -- and there's a ton of value in the brand if done correctly -- yet position itself for the future? Replicating the NBA and NFL is a fool's game. You can't win that way and if that's the path Rob Manfred and team elect I think it's a long term loser. In the end, baseball has to live or die on its own merits. So I'm not sure what to do moving forward but I'm pretty clear on what not to do. I'm also good with two new expansion teams slotted into each league. Portland and Montreal or Charlotte would be my choice. 

[Angel Oracle]

Main things now are:

1)  Move the Rays to either Charlotte, or if a real baseball stadium can be built, Montreal.    Charlotte supports the NFL and the NBA solidly enough.

2)  Move the A's to either Las Vegas or Portland, as I don't see a new stadium ever being built in Oakland due to the political setting in it. 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, ScottT said:

Universal DH is gonna happen.

Not having it contributes to the parade of relief pitchers. I hate seeing pitchers try to hit. I hate when pitchers are pulled earlier because their spot in the order is up.  When was the last time Griffin Canning had hit before Friday? High school, I'm guessing.  Its ridiculous to have guys bat that haven't in years.

This

Doesn't every level from HS on up, except for the NL, have the DH.    Pitchers who hit well can be used as pinch hitters, and even like Ohtani.   It's stupid to have one entity have the pitcher bat, but no other entity does.   

[Jay]

Not that anybody cares what I think, least of all the MLB owners, but I am not in favor of expansion. 30 teams is enough. Some teams might be better off in different cities but that's a separate topic.

I would be in favor of a complete reorganization and realignment of the teams.

Instead of leagues, there would be two conferences, Western and Eastern. Everybody has the DH.

Western Conference:
-- Northwest Division: SEA, MIN, MIL, OAK, SF
-- Pacific Division: LAD, LAA, SDG, AZ, COL
-- Midwest Division: CIN, HOU, TEX, STL, KC

Eastern Conference:
-- Northeast Division: NYY, NYM, TOR, BOS, DET
-- Atlantic Division: PIT, PHI, CHI, CWS, CLE
-- Southeast Division: WAS, BAL, ATL, TBR, MIA

Divison winners + 1 Wild Card advance to the playoffs. Division series best-of-5, Championship series best-of-7

None of this "one game playoff" stuff, I despise that.

Reduce the number of games to 150. Eliminate 4-game series during the regular season. Finish by the end of September. Finish the playoffs in October.

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Stop playing games in cold weather areas in March, JUST STOP IT!

Everyone always says this but it’s not that easy.

There are a lot of teams that play in cold weather places, and in order for the schedule to work a lot of them have to play each other when the season starts. Nearly half of the games on the major league schedule are within your division and cold weather teams are often in the same division. 

And the weather in Minnesota or Chicago can be lousy just as much on April 10 as March 29. The Angels had games postponed by cold/snow on April 12/13 the last two years. Are all those teams just supposed to play on the road for the first three weeks?

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Second Base said:

American League

Western Division: CA Angels, AZ D-Backs, Seattle Mariners, and Portland (Ports?)

We still wouldn't Win our Division.... I did enjoy your post Second Base! I also loved the cute nicknames that you gave the Divisions. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Main things now are:

1)  Move the Rays to either Charlotte, or if a real baseball stadium can be built, Montreal.    Charlotte supports the NFL and the NBA solidly enough.

2)  Move the A's to either Las Vegas or Portland, as I don't see a new stadium ever being built in Oakland due to the political setting in it. 

Done!

[DCAngelsFan]

On 6/23/2019 at 5:00 PM, Make Angels Great Again said:

Would love to see an expansion added in Nashville.

 

Probably because i'm moving to Tennessee soon.

Nashville continues to grow crazy-fast - the area has a strong sports (and baseball) culture - this looks like a strong candidate, despite its current low population.  

[Make Angels Great Again]

24 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Nashville continues to grow crazy-fast - the area has a strong sports (and baseball) culture - this looks like a strong candidate, despite its current low population.  

I mean, it's twice the population of Cincinnati.

Higher population than a lot of cities with teams now, like Atlanta.

[DCAngelsFan]

11 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

I mean, it's twice the population of Cincinnati.

Higher population than a lot of cities with teams now, like Atlanta.

I meant compared to other expansion city candidates, like Charlotte and Portland, it has a lower population - unlikely MLB is going to take away existing successful franchises.  

And using Combined Statistical Area, which is probably a better way to define the market, Nashville's is smaller than Charlotte, Portland, Las Vegas, as well as smaller than Cincinnati and Atlanta (only Milwaukee has a smaller CSA than Nashville.)

Yet I think a team would do better in Nashville than Charlotte.

Before expansion will come relocations - MLB wants to get back into Canada, and likely Montreal will get Miami - Tampa Bay should be next, but MLB won't take both FL teams at the same time.  

Oakland should move to Portland, but probably won't.  

I don't think baseball will expand as long as Miami and Tampa are moldering in the attendance basement - so, Miami moves to Montreal, and after that, Portland and Nashville get expansion teams.  

(an aside - will MLB step in and force Angelos to give up control of the Orioles?  Or are they waiting for him to die and then they'll force a sale?  That can't continue...)  

[the14thjoey]

On 6/23/2019 at 5:20 PM, HeavenlyHalos said:

Agreed with all of this except possibly keeping the Rays in Tampa. I'd also prefer to stay in the same division as the A's to keep that rivalry alive (Dbacks stay in the NL East).

Agreed on the A's. I'd like to see all regional pairs kept separate (Seattle-Portland, Oakland-San Francisco, Angels-Los Angeles, San Diego-Arizona) and conserving as much of the current divisions as necessary. Also, the Western and CA divisions travel distances are not balanced.

(renamed) Western: AZ, LA, SF, POR

Pacific: SD, Angels, OAK, SEA

I put the Padres in the Pacific due to that division having to go further north, so the Western division has to go further east.

This puts the city-to-city driving distance at 1,394 miles for the (renamed) Western division and 1,296 miles for the Pacific. With Second Base's setup it's 505 miles for the CA division and 1,528 miles for the West division. 

[Lou]

Another thing on my list of things I don't care about:

Travel miles of professional athletes

[Angel Oracle]

23 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Done!

Ok, I'm partial, lived in Charlotte as a kid in the 1960s.

[Hubs]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Second Base said:

In my opinion, MLB could use broad changes to the game right now. My issues....

1. Everyone says Oakland and Tampa Bay need to resolve their stadium issues, except Angel Stadium is older than both of those and has a sooner deadline to meet. But even that won't fix the fact that....

2. The travel distances and schedules heavily favor East Coast teams. Every year, the Angels and Mariners spend more time in the air, less time relaxing on the ground than their East Coast counterparts. A big reason for this is because of...

3. Idiotic division alignment. One Western Division stays West of the Rockies and does not travel any further North than San Francisco. The other travels as far North as Seattle and has two effing teams all the way in Texas. It's not to say Texas is a bad state to play in but why the frick aren't they in a division with St. Louis, Kansas City, Colorado and Atlanta? Division alignment would be really simple if MLB would just...

4. Adopt the DH for all teams. It creates more opportunity for employment for offensive players and allows the National League to keep their greatest sluggers that age rather than losing them to the extremely limited number of American League teams that are actually competitive and have a need. Of course, none of this solves...

5. The problems with international spending and draft picks. Why should a team pick an 18 year old American when they can pick an 18 year old Dominican with a forged documents that claim he's only 16? Create an international draft, standardize the minimum age at which a player can be selected (17 makes the most sense), and make those draft picks available for trade.  This fixes a lot of the off the field issues, but contact address on the field issues, mainly...

6. Just how awful umps are at their jobs. It would be faster and more efficient to have an electronic strike zone.  This would require some rule changes, but some of the rules in place simply need to be enforced like not letting the batter out of the box between pitches.  That's one way to speed up the game. Another is an aggressive pitch clock so that the Rays don't hold the ball for four hours a night in order to keep a runner on first base. And next, even more stringent mound visit rules, so that the Red Sox and Yankees can't call a timeout after every freakin pitch to discuss pitch selection and defensive alignment. 

_____________________________

I think assuming the strongest suitors end up getting MLB teams, I'll operate off the following assumptions

- The Angels end up staying in Anaheim and working something out with the city. 

- The Rays stay in Tampa (area) and the A's stay in Oakland (area).

- Portland and Montreal get expansion teams. 

So this is how I'd align the divisions (and look, they come with cool division names now.....for the most part)

National League

California Division: Oakland A's, LA Dodgers, San Diego Padres, San Francisco Giants.

Central Division: Colorado Rockies, Chicago White Sox, Chicago Cubs, Atlanta Braves

Northern Division: Minnesota Twins, Milwaukee Brewers, Toronto Blue Jays and Montreal Expos

Atlantic Division: Miami Marlins, Tampa Bay Rays, Washington Nationals and Baltimore Orioles

American League

Western Division: CA Angels, AZ D-Backs, Seattle Mariners, and Portland (Ports?)

Heartland Division: Texas Rangers, Houston Astros, St. Louis Cardinals and Kansas City Royals

Rust Belt Division: Detroit Tigers, Cleveland Indians, Cincinatti Reds and Pittsburgh Pirates

Colonial Division: Philadelphia Phillies, New York Mets, New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox

Playoffs would be FOUR DIVISION WINNERS, plus two Wild Cards.  Top two division winners get a first round bye.  Just as an example, in this format, with the standings right now....

NL: Bye - Dodgers, Twins.  ---------- Chicago Cubs vs Milwaukee Brewers.  Tampa Bay Rays vs. Atlanta Braves

AL: Bye - Yankees, Astros. ---------- Phillies vs. Cards, Red Sox vs. Indians.

 

 

I'm almost with you on this except too many traditional teams swap leagues. I get why, but its too many changes.

My Presumption is that the Rays move to Nashville. Portland and Montreal get the Expansion team. Or Rays move to Montreal and then Nashville gets the Expansion team.

Rays move to National League, Rockies and D'Backs move to the American League.

National League:

West: Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Portland Beavers*

Central: Cubs, Cardinals, Reds, Brewers

East: Mets, Pirates, Phillies, Montreal Expos*

South: Braves, Nationals, Marlins, Nashville Sounds*

 

American League:

West: Angels, A's, M's, D'Backs

Central: Indians, Tigers, White Sox, Twins

East: Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, Blue Jays

South: Rangers, Astros, Royals, Rockies

 

Alternately, you could give the Nashville Sounds to the AL South (and leave the Rockies) and even out the expansion teams, or the Portland Beavers to the West (and leave the D'Backs)...but Colorado should've always been an AL team...

 

Playoffs would be Four Division Winners Plus Two Wild Cards in Each league, Top two get buys, 3/4 seeds get a 3 game series. Then a 5 game division series, 7 game championship series, and a 7 game World Series. I'd also limit the days off to none in the Wild Card Series, one in the 5 game series, one in the 7 and one in the WS. I'd play one of the Division Series games as a Double Header.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lou]

Again, the Rays have a stadium lease through 2027.

[Mark PT]

Before we consider expansion, can we prove that we can field an, at least, decent pitching staff? Until then, I am going to assume there is not enough talent out there to keep expanding.

[Hubs]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:10 AM, Jeff Fletcher said:

Everyone always says this but it’s not that easy.

There are a lot of teams that play in cold weather places, and in order for the schedule to work a lot of them have to play each other when the season starts. Nearly half of the games on the major league schedule are within your division and cold weather teams are often in the same division. 

And the weather in Minnesota or Chicago can be lousy just as much on April 10 as March 29. The Angels had games postponed by cold/snow on April 12/13 the last two years. Are all those teams just supposed to play on the road for the first three weeks?

I really think it's about warm weather teams not going to cold weather places in those first few weeks.

And the unbalanced schedule which needs to be lessened IMHO. 18-19 games against 4 teams is nearly half the schedule. They play the other teams in their league only once home and away and it should really be twice.

The need for interleague play constantly also hurts this. It should be mostly division play in the early months, because they play so much more often.

If they go to 32, they should also try to fix the schedule to be more balanced.

14 games against the 3 teams in your division = 42 games. (2 x 3 game series, 2 x 4 game series). 10 games against one other division in your league (2 x 3 and a 4 game series) = 40 games. 7 games against the other 8 (one 3 and one 4 each) = 56 games. That's 138.

24 Interleague games. Two divisions. Always play the same geographical location, and then one other rotating every three years. So AL West always plays NL West, Central plays Central, East plays East, and South plays south. The other divsion rotates. Year 1 West plays Central, Year 2 in plays East, Year 3 South.

The interleague series is split so you get two home series and two away series in each of the two divisions every year.

 

 

 

[Hubs]

17 hours ago, Lou said:

Again, the Rays have a stadium lease through 2027.

MLB can break this lease, and help the Rays pay the penalty. They want fans at games, having 10k announced attendance helps no one.

Or they can simply contract the Rays, give ownership an expansion team and expand three times.

[Lou]

I can't see MLB breaking a team's stadium lease. They aren't a part of the agreement. 

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

I can't see MLB breaking a team's stadium lease. They aren't a part of the agreement. 

Do we know what the penalty is?

 

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Do we know what the penalty is?

 

 

On 6/20/2019 at 2:46 PM, Lou said:

"The Rays cannot explore playing any Major League Baseball games in Montreal or anywhere else for that matter prior to 2028, without reaching a formal memorandum of understanding with the City of St. Petersburg.

Ultimately, such a decision is up to me. And I have no intention of bringing this latest idea to our city council to consider. In fact, I believe this is getting a bit silly."

St Pete Mayor 

 

[Lou]

Re: Penalty

Not an option

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2018/12/13/14406/no-rays-owner-cant-pay-a-penalty-to-move-out-of-tampa-bay-before-2027/

[Angel Oracle]

Move the Rays and A's, whenever their leases are up, and NO MORE TURF for you Rays and Jays.   That means you too, D-Backs!   It was stupid to switch to turf this season!

No expansion, 30 teams is enough!

As far as the schedule goes, make it 6 games a week for everybody with a day off each week.   Start the season on a Friday, with the season lasting that first weekend plus the 27 weeks after it.   That's only an extra week.   Tighten up the post-season some (no more two days off between games in a series and not so many days between series), and you don't necessarily play much beyond the first few days in November. 

The travel isn't so brutal with that off day each week, and teams won't need to have weird start times for the last game of a weekday series.

Then, have 18 games/season against division foes, 6 games/season against all other teams in your league, and then 6 games/season against all teams in one division in the other league (rotating divisions each season).   That keeps the 162 game schedule.    And if that means the Halos playing the Dogs 6 times only once every 3 seasons, so be it.   It makes each of those 6 game season series more interesting, as opposed to playing them every season 4 times.   Uniformity, like knowledge, is good.  

Oh, and finally adopt the DH, freaking NL!    Everyone else from HS level on up has it!

You're welcome, Manfred!

[Dick B Back]

I would prefer the Halos in the loser division with Baltimore, Detroit, KC, and Miami.

[Hubs]

3 hours ago, Lou said:

 

 

Contract Them. No more Rays. Problem Solved.