Ohtani

[ten ocho recon scout]

Lost in all the Trout hoopla of the last few days, and the macho-harper drama over the winter, Shohei hasnt been talked about too much on here recently.

I was watching a highlight reel on youtube and started remembering how freaking cool this guy is. Filthy pitcher, and outstanding power.

So lets say he gives you another few years like he did. Pretend his arm is fine, and he more or less gives you the same offense/pitching over the next few seasons. Not an ace, not  an mvp hitter, but very good at both.

Not to mention, a plus baserunner and seemingly "good guy".

Do we have another Trout situation brewing? Weve mentioned guys like Simmons on here, needing to lock him up. (And I LOVE) that guy. But is Ohtani the next huge contract we need to start prepping for?

I dont think its a stretch to argue hes more talented than Trout (i know, blasphemy)(and I know, he still has to show hes no fluke). Theres also something to be said that he picked us, we didnt draft him. 

So assuming he has a few years like last under his belt, and hes a FA lets say next year. How much does he get? How important is he to this team? 

And will weather wonk ask if he eats pizza, and suggest hes going back to Japan?

[UndertheHalo]

Ohtani is the next guy, but I think we can not worry about that for a couple more years.  For me, I’m as excited to watch Ohtani as I am Trout. He’s fantastic.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yeah, Trout is obviously god. But Ohtani is just so interesting. Its still hard to believe hes able to excel at both jobs.

[Lou]

Three of the most exciting players in baseball - Trout, Ohtani and Simmons.

We get to watch them on a daily basis. 

 

Edge: McPherson 

[UndertheHalo]

11 minutes ago, Lou said:

Three of the most exciting players in baseball - Trout, Ohtani and Simmons.

We get to watch them on a daily basis. 

 

Edge: McPherson 

Dallas McPherson is one the most massive human beings I’ve ever encountered in my life.  I don’t remember exactly what year it was but I was out at the stadium with my brother.  McPherson was on the DL again.  Anyway we were wandering around on the field level concourse out by the bullpens and I notice this big ass rectangular dude walking toward us.  I realized pretty quickly it ws him, because I’m a weirdo like that.  I yelled something stupid like “what’s up Dallas’ and he looked back and said what’s up.  Kind of funny.  Anyway, it’s not just that he’s tall.  He is, but at the time the guy was literally the size of like a tank.  Anyway.  I get why he kept falling apart.  People aren’t suppose to be athletic and that big without breaking.  

Edited March 21, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Lou]

The only baseball player whose stature amazed me was Frank Thomas. 

Then there's Shaq. Holy crap.

[ten ocho recon scout]

28 minutes ago, Lou said:

Three of the most exciting players in baseball - Trout, Ohtani and Simmons.

We get to watch them on a daily basis. 

 

Edge: McPherson 

With Adell on his way up as well...

[Angelsjunky]

I'm

43 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So lets say he gives you another few years like he did. Pretend his arm is fine, and he more or less gives you the same offense/pitching over the next few seasons. Not an ace, not  an mvp hitter, but very good at both.

I actually think he was/is close to an ace and MVP caliber hitter. And yeah, he's an absolutely incredible talent.

Pitching - the numbers were good, not great, but the stuff we saw was filthy: ace level. The question is health and endurance, but he has the potential for a 2.50 ERA in 150 innings.

Hitting - Among players with 350+ PA last year, his wRC+ of 152 was 8th in the majors -- better than Aaron Judge and Paul Goldschmidt. I suspect he was pretty close to his upside, though, and we should be happy if he consolidates - with perhaps a higher BA.

So in 2018, Ohtani was basically Goldschmidt pitching like a good #3, which yielded a total of 3.8 WAR (2.8/1.0) in 367 PA and 51 IP. I suspect he's capable of #1-2 starter performance and twice that WAR, maybe more, in a peak year. 

[Docwaukee]

37 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Lost in all the Trout hoopla of the last few days, and the macho-harper drama over the winter, Shohei hasnt been talked about too much on here recently.

I was watching a highlight reel on youtube and started remembering how freaking cool this guy is. Filthy pitcher, and outstanding power.

So lets say he gives you another few years like he did. Pretend his arm is fine, and he more or less gives you the same offense/pitching over the next few seasons. Not an ace, not  an mvp hitter, but very good at both.

Not to mention, a plus baserunner and seemingly "good guy".

Do we have another Trout situation brewing? Weve mentioned guys like Simmons on here, needing to lock him up. (And I LOVE) that guy. But is Ohtani the next huge contract we need to start prepping for?

I dont think its a stretch to argue hes more talented than Trout (i know, blasphemy)(and I know, he still has to show hes no fluke). Theres also something to be said that he picked us, we didnt draft him. 

So assuming he has a few years like last under his belt, and hes a FA lets say next year. How much does he get? How important is he to this team? 

And will weather wonk ask if he eats pizza, and suggest hes going back to Japan?

It's exactly why the timing of a Machado or Harper deal didn't make sense for this team.  If Ohtani hold his trajectory, he's gonna be a 20m + player shortly after Albert is off the books and then that number is gonna keep going up.  To the point that you've got him making 30m or more with an extension.  Shohei is 24 and will be 25 mid season which means he'd be a free agent before his 29yo season.  But it'll never get that far.  Especially if Eppler stay around for awhile.  

If Ohtani isn't quite what we think he'll be then in 2021 or 2022, you consider going big after someone like Bryant or Lindor. 

[Second Base]

The GOAT and the team captain (along with Pujols) just made a statement to his teammates that he's going to stay in an Angels uniform for the rest of his life. Andrelton Simmons will be extended, as will Ohtani, and Skaggs, and Heaney and in time, Adell, Marsh and Canning. Shoot, the greatest of the for,er generation in Pujols will retire as an Angel and will still work for the Angels in ten years. 

The Angels and Arte Moreno are a genuine, loyal organization. The owners love Arte because he's old school, like Illitch or Steinbrenner and the players association love them too because they pay up and don't bother with tanking. This really is a good organization, top to bottom. 

The only guys that will be testing the FA market going forward are the ones the Angels didn't want, or the ones that don't identify with the long term identity of the team and are just here to build some value before searching for a larger payday elsewhere. When speaking of the former, Calhoun comes to mind. The Angels like him, they just have his replacements lined up already. And the latter, guys like Matt Harvey and Trevor Cahill. 

 

[Lou]

Skaggs?

[Blarg]

@ten ocho recon scout why are you stealing my stuff?

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

@ten ocho recon scout why are you stealing my stuff?

 

Your stuff is always spelled correctly and well thought out. I wanted an ohtani thread that some dick jokes would pop up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(And because I was lazy, and didnt see that thread)

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'm

I actually think he was/is close to an ace and MVP caliber hitter. And yeah, he's an absolutely incredible talent.

Pitching - the numbers were good, not great, but the stuff we saw was filthy: ace level. The question is health and endurance, but he has the potential for a 2.50 ERA in 150 innings.

Hitting - Among players with 350+ PA last year, his wRC+ of 152 was 8th in the majors -- better than Aaron Judge and Paul Goldschmidt. I suspect he was pretty close to his upside, though, and we should be happy if he consolidates - with perhaps a higher BA.

So in 2018, Ohtani was basically Goldschmidt pitching like a good #3, which yielded a total of 3.8 WAR (2.8/1.0) in 367 PA and 51 IP. I suspect he's capable of #1-2 starter performance and twice that WAR, maybe more, in a peak year. 

So I dont know if anyone will top trouts contract in the near future. Not only is it tops, but a pretty wide cushion between it and the next one (Harper).

Trout is untouchable in terms that hes literally the best offensive player of this generation, and trending alongside of the best ever.

But lets say Ohtani does in fact repeat this going forward. And like you said, hes a legit front end pitcher, and hits a ton...

... does that make him even "better" than Trout? And if so, "worth" more? 

Just for debate, its kind of an interesting argument. Ohtani obviously isnt as good as trout the hitter. Phenom speed but not as good as trout the baserunner. Doesnt field like trout. 

That said, his pitching brings a whole other value.

So lets compare the two. Same numbers as last year and imagine it goes like that for a few years. Its almost another trout vs mcab argument. One has the better bat (in 2012), but the other is so much better overall.

Trout, even staying the best and possibly GOAT when its all said and done... may end up being co MVP of this team. Thats crazy...

[ten ocho recon scout]

Also, I hope Ohtani wins Cy Young someday. Not just for the obvious. But the arguments, like when gagne won it as a closer, will be fun. 

And if he wins a gold glove as a pitcher, and the rafael palmeiro DH gold glove comments come up...

[arch stanton]

The great thing about Ohtani is that even if he's never the 26 starts a year pitcher they hope for the left handed power bat may only get better so it's just a matter of seeing how his time is proportioned in 2 years when it's time to talk serious extension. He'll set the standards for 2 way players going forward

[T.G.]

11 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Shohei hasnt been talked about too much on here recently.

We're waiting for permission from @Dtwncbad before we talk about Ohtani.

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

We're waiting for permission from @Dtwncbad before we talk about Ohtani.

Permission granted.  Proceed.

[Dick Enberg]

11 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Dallas McPherson is one the most massive human beings I’ve ever encountered in my life.  I don’t remember exactly what year it was but I was out at the stadium with my brother.  McPherson was on the DL again.  Anyway we were wandering around on the field level concourse out by the bullpens and I notice this big ass rectangular dude walking toward us.  I realized pretty quickly it ws him, because I’m a weirdo like that.  I yelled something stupid like “what’s up Dallas’ and he looked back and said what’s up.  Kind of funny.  Anyway, it’s not just that he’s tall.  He is, but at the time the guy was literally the size of like a tank.  Anyway.  I get why he kept falling apart.  People aren’t suppose to be athletic and that big without breaking.  

and the sound of the ball coming off his bat was like none other. I swear a few times I saw sparks when he connected bat to ball. a freak of nature, to bad he didn't work out bad back and all

[Chuck]

11 hours ago, Lou said:

Three of the most exciting players in baseball - Trout, Ohtani and Simmons.

We get to watch them on a daily basis. 

All of this. 

[Dick Enberg]

11 hours ago, Lou said:

Three of the most exciting players in baseball - Trout, Ohtani and Simmons.

We get to watch them on a daily basis. 

 

 

and Jo Adell soon to join that group

[Dtwncbad]

36 minutes ago, Dick Enberg said:

and the sound of the ball coming off his bat was like none other. I swear a few times I saw sparks when he connected bat to ball. a freak of nature, to bad he didn't work out bad back and all

Dallas McPherson is probably the toughest disappointment ever for me in terms of prospects that didn't end up what I hoped.

I worded that carefully.  This guy was not a "bust" like many other prospects.

His body fell apart.  He was absolutely legit and was a damn good bet to hit 400 homers in the majors.  Sick power.

He was basically identical to Ryan Howard in the minors.  Identical.

He managed about a .750 OPS in the majors with a back that was a complete mess.  He was never healthy.

This one bothered me quite a bit because it wasn't like some minor leaguer that couldn't cut it in the majors.  The major league talent was there.  His body just failed him.

[Bronson]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Dallas McPherson is probably the toughest disappointment ever for me in terms of prospects that didn't end up what I hoped.

I worded that carefully.  This guy was not a "bust" like many other prospects.

His body fell apart.  He was absolutely legit and was a damn good bet to hit 400 homers in the majors.  Sick power.

He was basically identical to Ryan Howard in the minors.  Identical.

He managed about a .750 OPS in the majors with a back that was a complete mess.  He was never healthy.

This one bothered me quite a bit because it wasn't like some minor leaguer that couldn't cut it in the majors.  The major league talent was there.  His body just failed him.

Too bad we let Troy Glaus walk because of him.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

13 hours ago, Lou said:

The only baseball player whose stature amazed me was Frank Thomas. 

Then there's Shaq. Holy crap.

Frank Howard

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Frank Howard

In 1970, saw him hit an absolute bomb off of Andy Messersmith at the Big A.    Ball landed waaaaaay beyond the LF fence (maybe 470 feet?). 

At first, I'm sure that Dogs' fan was pissed when they traded him after the 1964 season to the Senators for Claude Osteen, as part of a 7 player deal.   Osteen though did help to lead them (with help from some guys named Koufax and Drysdale) to two WS appearances (1 title) in 1965-1966.

https://www.truebluela.com/2014/12/4/6997721/claude-osteen-frank-howard-trade-dodgers-senators

First time I ever heard that Howard thought about retiring after the 1963 season, while still only in his mid 20s.