The Official 2017 MLB Winter Meetings thread

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Hermosillo is the highest-rated OF that I could see actually being in play for Kinsler.

Why the hell wouldn't we just sign a FA 2nd basemen...

[UndertheHalo]

This is why I’ve been so aggressively against Kinsler.  Every indication is that the Tigers actually want something back for him.  He’d have been an Angel last summer otherwise.  Kinsler isn’t worth any of our top 15-20 prospects.  He may well be a below average player and he’s here for one year.  It’s fucking stupid. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Turd Ferguson]

I like the Kinsler fit, but a big part of that was what I assumed would be the relatively low asking price in return provided we took back his salary. If that's their asking price, move on.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This is why I’ve been so aggressively against Kinsler.  Every indication is that the Tigers actually want something back for him.  He’d have been an Angel last summer otherwise.  Kinsler isn’t worth any of our top 15-20 prospects.  He may well be a below average player and he’s here for one year.  It’s fucking stupid. 

By some counts, he would have been arguably our third best hitter on the team last year, in a 'down' year for him. He'd be a very good addition but only if the cost is something like a Jake Jewell or David Fletcher + random minor leaguer sort of deal.

4 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Why the hell wouldn't we just sign a FA 2nd basemen...

Well, we still might if the cost is worth it. Walker is really the only FA available who offensively compares, at least consistently, to what Kinsler does.

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, Cdaniel said:

I wouldnt want to do that deal for 1yr of Kins.

I think I'd reject it as well. I really like Hermosillo, even if he becomes no more than a Jeff DaVanon-type.

[Chuck]

12 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This is why I’ve been so aggressively against Kinsler.  Every indication is that the Tigers actually want something back for him.  He’d have been an Angel last summer otherwise.  Kinsler isn’t worth any of our top 15-20 prospects.  He may well be a below average player and he’s here for one year.  It’s fucking stupid. 

Yeah I was under the assumption that it wouldn't take much to get Kinsler. If it does, sign off Eppler and look elsewhere. 

Nobody has answered this, or maybe they have and I missed it, but what about Eduardo Nunez for 2B (and leadoff) then sign Moustakas. 

Can Nunez play 2B?

[bloodbrother]

21 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Jason Beck‏ @beckjason
At this point, Angels may be most logical fit for a Kinsler deal. Farm system isn't deep, but can address a Tigers need with outfield prospects such as Jo Adell, Jahmai Jones and Brandon Marsh.

From the Tigers MLB.com beat writer. If that is indeed the asking price, that's a firm no for me, and that's exactly why I'm advocating that we keep an open mind in terms of where else we could improve, such as RF or SP, if we are being asked on our top prospects. If we need to fill a void by trading significant prospects, there may be different targets.

There's no way that's the asking price. Tigers know what they're dealing here. 35 yr old 2B on the last yr of his deal isn't netting much more than an average prospect at best

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, bloodbrother said:

There's no way that's the asking price. Tigers know what they're dealing here. 35 yr old 2B on the last yr of his deal isn't netting much more than an average prospect at best

That awkward moment when Kinsler commands a bigger asking price than Ozuna did.

[Cdaniel]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah I was under the assumption that it wouldn't take much to get Kinsler. If it does, sign off Eppler and look elsewhere. 

Nobody has answered this, or maybe they have and I missed it, but what about Eduardo Nunez for 2B (and leadoff) then sign Moustakas. 

Can Nunez play 2B?

I think I read on hear  that he is avg at best at 2B

[Tank]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

Poor marlins man.  Going from maybe the best outfield in the game to whatever they're going to throw out

they might as well play corbin bernsen at third and Jobu at first.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

By some counts, he would have been arguably our third best hitter on the team last year, in a 'down' year for him. He'd be a very good addition but only if the cost is something like a Jake Jewell or David Fletcher + random minor leaguer sort of deal.

Well, we still might if the cost is worth it. Walker is really the only FA available who offensively compares, at least consistently, to what Kinsler does.

I don’t disagree that he’s an upgrade for us.  That has never been my argument.  We both know, 3rd best hitter on the 2016 Angels is a pretty worthless title.  Basically any replacement level player would legitimately likely be an improvement.  

I just hate this idea that we’re going to give up, even a Hermosillo (who I think is likely a decent 4th OF at best) for an aging Ian Kinsler who, we really should have no confidence will return pre 2016 performance levels.  And again, that’s not to say he won’t be decent and an improvement.  The Angels aren’t that desperate.  We need to not be in this 3 year window must win trap.  That leads to silliness like the idea that we HAVE TO HAVE  Ian Kinsler.  Come on.  This guy isn’t the last piece of the World Series puzzle for us.  Top to bottom organizational strength will lead to the promised land.  Pursue genuinely valuable players.  They’ll become available.  Simmons did.  Upton did. Just work on REAL improvement.  

[MongoMuller]

21 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Jason Beck‏ @beckjason
At this point, Angels may be most logical fit for a Kinsler deal. Farm system isn't deep, but can address a Tigers need with outfield prospects such as Jo Adell, Jahmai Jones and Brandon Marsh.

From the Tigers MLB.com beat writer. If that is indeed the asking price, that's a firm no for me, and that's exactly why I'm advocating that we keep an open mind in terms of where else we could improve, such as RF or SP, if we are being asked on our top prospects. If we need to fill a void by trading significant prospects, there may be different targets.

That's crazy talk...there's no way he'll cost that much.  They want to get his salary off the books.  I just saw the full no-trade...no California or New York, probably for tax reasons, so we may have to kick in a little extra at most but its not going to cost a major prospect.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah I was under the assumption that it wouldn't take much to get Kinsler. If it does, sign off Eppler and look elsewhere. 

Nobody has answered this, or maybe they have and I missed it, but what about Eduardo Nunez for 2B (and leadoff) then sign Moustakas. 

Can Nunez play 2B?

Yes, Nunez can play 2B, and yes, Nunez can lead-off. 

Color me skeptical on Nunez though. I just don't buy that he isn't more than a .270/.320/.410/.730, 100 OPS+ guy going forward, which certainly isn't terrible, but really doesn't strike me as an ideal lead-off candidate or legitimate upgrade. We can do better.

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Yes, Nunez can play 2B, and yes, Nunez can lead-off. 

Color me skeptical on Nunez though. I just don't buy that he isn't more than a .270/.320/.410/.730, 100 OPS+ guy going forward, which certainly isn't terrible, but really doesn't strike me as an ideal lead-off candidate or legitimate upgrade. We can do better.

But if it’s cheap it’s OK.  And we have a valuable utility asset. 

If it’s not there, we don’t need to get a long term 2b solution this winter.  

Bandaids should cost nothing. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Yes, Nunez can play 2B, and yes, Nunez can lead-off. 

Color me skeptical on Nunez though. I just don't buy that he isn't more than a .270/.320/.410/.730, 100 OPS+ guy going forward, which certainly isn't terrible, but really doesn't strike me as an ideal lead-off candidate or legitimate upgrade. We can do better.

 

We can do better, but we'd have to give up some of the farm unfortunately. I doubt Nunez will cost much.

I think you're going to get a guy that will hit 15 HR and 30 SB, while hitting at least .270. That to me is a HUGE boost from what we've gotten out of 2B the past three years. 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t disagree that he’s an upgrade for us.  That has never been my argument.  We both know, 3rd best hitter on the 2016 Angels is a pretty worthless title.  Basically any replacement level player would legitimately likely be an improvement.  

I just hate this idea that we’re going to give up, even a Hermosillo (who I think is likely a decent 4th OF at best) for an aging Ian Kinsler who, we really should have no confidence will return pre 2016 performance levels.  And again, that’s not to say he won’t be decent and an improvement.  The Angels aren’t that desperate.  We need to not be in this 3 year window must win trap.  That leads to silliness like the idea that we HAVE TO HAVE  Ian Kinsler.  Come on.  This guy isn’t the last piece of the World Series puzzle for us.  Top to bottom organizational strength will lead to the promised land.  Pursue genuinely valuable players.  They’ll become available.  Simmons did.  Upton did. Just work on REAL improvement.  

I certainly wouldn't pay a Hermosillo price..Jake Jewell/David Fletcher is the highest I'd go. And I still think that's doable. Eppler and Avila have consummated some very fair trades in their history at this point. Kinsler to me has always struck me as having the best value out of any potential 2B target we've mentioned.

[bloodbrother]

 

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

We can do better, but we'd have to give up some of the farm unfortunately. I doubt Nunez will cost much.

I think you're going to get a guy that will hit 15 HR and 30 SB, while hitting at least .270. That to me is a HUGE boost from what we've gotten out of 2B the past three years. 

And I mean if we got that.  That’s a borderline all star if he gets on base.  The upside is there with Nunez.  

I won’t repeat myself again, but I’ll say it one last time here.  If we’re gonna roll the dice on a player do it with one that won’t cost anything. 

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

 

Yeah but if he has Blair Walsh as his kicker, no deals today! 

[VariousCrap]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah I was under the assumption that it wouldn't take much to get Kinsler. If it does, sign off Eppler and look elsewhere. 

Nobody has answered this, or maybe they have and I missed it, but what about Eduardo Nunez for 2B (and leadoff) then sign Moustakas. 

Can Nunez play 2B?

 

Yes he can.

Honestly, if the 2B trade options are demanding too much, Eppler needs to turn his attention to Walker, Cozart or Nunez.  Anyone of them would be just fine.  I think they will need to seriously consider Moustakas for 3B though.

[Angelsfan1984]

3 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

 

Hopefully he doesn't throw and pick 6.

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

We can do better, but we'd have to give up some of the farm unfortunately. I doubt Nunez will cost much.

I think you're going to get a guy that will hit 15 HR and 30 SB, while hitting at least .270. That to me is a HUGE boost from what we've gotten out of 2B the past three years. 

He's going to be 31 and has only hit more than 15 home runs once - 16 back in '16. He's only stolen 30 or more once, also back in '16, and had his leg explode in October.

.275, 10 homers, 25 SB is probably more realistic for his ceiling ages 31-33. Still a huge boost compared to years past, but again, I think we can exceed that. Going from league-worst to league average when we have ample payroll, a saturated 2B market, and some prospect currency doesn't strike me as the ideal outcome. Kinsler had more extra base hits last year, a down year at age 35, than Nunez has ever hit.

Kinsler walked 55 times last year - almost half of Nunez' career total of 115. Not saying Kinsler is the answer, but the price needs to be very modest. I see Nunez more as a Maicer Izturis UT IF guy. I think it also reduces our margin of error for our 3B acquisition - we have to hit BIG on Moose or Frazier to nullify any risk of Nunez regressing to a career mean.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, bloodbrother said:

 

Yeah, but what team? Could be the Browns in that analogy.

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, ten ocho recon scout said:

Yeah, but what team? Could be the Browns in that analogy.

DONT YOU PUT THAT EVIL ON US !

[Turd Ferguson]

The more I read, the more I like Frazier as a 3b option. He can play multiple positions and is a good defender (per MLBtraderumors: Moving Frazier around the diamond certainly enhances his appeal, though it also should be emphasized that he still draws strong marks as a defender at third base. Though he had an abnormally poor year in that regard in 2016, Defensive Runs Saved (+10) and Ultimate Zone Rating (+6.7) both felt his defense was among the best in the game. Only Nolan Arenado ranked above Frazier in both DRS and UZR this past season.)