Should Scioscia be in the running for MOTY?

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Lou is typically a pretty light-hearted guy ... his comment seemed rather cheeky.

i guess im on the defensive, my bad

[Lou]

15 minutes ago, floplag said:

Yeah cause that makes perfect sense as anything other than argumentative, though ill admit the multiple exclamation points did up the accuracy level by about 3 points.  
Now if you could actually justify that it would be intriguing to read, but we both know you cant.  Not to mention its contradictory considering if that was the case he should have made the decision to replace them if he was all that.  But, I guess it makes for good forums fodder. 

Lol you can't be serious 

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Lou is typically a pretty light-hearted guy ... his comment seemed rather cheeky.

Never would I have thought anyone would take that comment seriously.

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

Never would I have thought anyone would take that comment seriously.

as i said, sorry, i guess im a little defensive.  sarcasm mixed with attacks i misread it. 
Its funny to me how people can bitch about Scoscia in one thread then consider him god in another, kinda hard to comprehend.  
my apologies

[Lou]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

as i said, sorry, i guess im a little defensive.  sarcasm mixed with attacks i misread it. 

Ah, I see that now..no worries., remember we agree on who deserves the credit and blame.  (I don't recall attacking you, however) Trust me, MLB isn't high up there in importance in my life.  

[arch stanton]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Ah, I see that now..no worries., remember we agree on who deserves the credit and blame.  (I don't recall attacking you, however) Trust me, MLB isn't high up there in importance in my life.  

F'in Commie!

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, floplag said:

Of course he does, i never said otherwise.  Im not suggesting he get no credit for the right decisions, only that they dont in my opinion overshadow the wrong ones or erase them.  Its funny to me that you pick that one game knowing that most of the things many here have criticized him for were not there but ill let that go.
Look i can even forgive making what should be the right move that doesn't work out, bringing in the right pitcher in the right spot that has an off night, whatever no way he could predict that.  
What i cannot abide and will never understand is the rigidness of some of his decisions, or lack thereof in regards to things like struggling players and his efforts to try to catch up to the stat world by forcing platoons that shouldn't be forced. 

Ok, but there is no way in the world he is "trying to catch up to the stat world by forcing platoons that shouldn't be forced".  For one he has been platooning forever, so there is no logical way he would be trying to catch up.  Second, when the GM brings in a guy to platoon, well like you said earlier, he is only playing the guys he is told to play.  Also, I am not sure if you have noticed this year, but that rigidness in his decisions as it relates to bullpen management doesn't really exist.  As far as me picking one game, hell I can point out literally dozens of games where he has made decisions that have worked, just like you can point out dozens of games where his call doesn't work.  What is funny is we aren't that far away in philosophy on this.  I give him credit for things that you seem to think he doesn't deserve credit for, and you give him blame for things I don't think he deserves a lot of blame for.  Bottom line is this season he has done about as well as you can expect a manager to do with this collection of players, with all of the injuries.  

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, floplag said:

as i said, sorry, i guess im a little defensive.  sarcasm mixed with attacks i misread it. 
Its funny to me how people can bitch about Scoscia in one thread then consider him god in another, kinda hard to comprehend.  
my apologies

Attacks, haha.  Ok.  

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, but there is no way in the world he is "trying to catch up to the stat world by forcing platoons that shouldn't be forced".  For one he has been platooning forever, so there is no logical way he would be trying to catch up.  Second, when the GM brings in a guy to platoon, well like you said earlier, he is only playing the guys he is told to play.  Also, I am not sure if you have noticed this year, but that rigidness in his decisions as it relates to bullpen management doesn't really exist.  As far as me picking one game, hell I can point out literally dozens of games where he has made decisions that have worked, just like you can point out dozens of games where his call doesn't work.  What is funny is we aren't that far away in philosophy on this.  I give him credit for things that you seem to think he doesn't deserve credit for, and you give him blame for things I don't think he deserves a lot of blame for.  Bottom line is this season he has done about as well as you can expect a manager to do with this collection of players, with all of the injuries.  

As i said, we can agree to disagree, i cannot admit hes done his best.  Pujols still in the 3 alone destroys that statement without even going into why other players are in there as often as they are.  I was fine with it in the beginning as there was still hope he would pull out of the slump but at this point  you simply cannot justify it by any means.   When he changes that, we can revisit this discussion, till then, nope.   

[floplag]

14 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Attacks, haha.  Ok.  

its a generic term dont get butthurt over it.  sheesh.  

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Yeah cause that makes perfect sense as anything other than argumentative, though ill admit the multiple exclamation points did up the accuracy level by about 3 points.  
Now if you could actually justify that it would be intriguing to read, but we both know you cant.  Not to mention its contradictory considering if that was the case he should have made the decision to replace them if he was all that.  But, I guess it makes for good forums fodder. 

I think the justification is simply looking at the team stats for offense and realize it is only ahead of one team in the American League, the White Sox, and yet here the team sits on the second wild card with all those statistically better teams beneath them.

The pitching certainly isn't the crown jewel of the AL. Every month there is the pitcher de jour coming off the DL, going on the DL, making their major league debut, getting a second chance from the scrap pile and that's just the starting five. The same starting five that included multiple five inning starts from Nolasto and Crapez. Even the new guys struggled to get to the sixth making managing the bullpen even a greater challenge to have an arm up and throwing that hadn't logged multiple innings over multiple games in a row.

The bullpen is another group of, who are those guys, that nobody saw on the Angels roster last year or even last month let alone last week. The guys rotate in and out of Salt Lake so often the plane tickets all say TBA on the passenger name.

And all the while, as @Inside Pitch mentioned, there is no clubhouse meltdown. Nobody is going nuts on each other in the dugout for any reason. It could easily have been a toss in the towel season but they are still focused on winning and that doesn't happen with shell shocked troops without someone keeping the moral up.

Can you please explain how any of this has nothing to do with team management? 

[Stradling]

34 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I think the justification is simply looking at the team stats for offense and realize it is only ahead of one team in the American League, the White Sox, and yet here the team sits on the second wild card with all those statistically better teams beneath them.

The pitching certainly isn't the crown jewel of the AL. Every month there is the pitcher de jour coming off the DL, going on the DL, making their major league debut, getting a second chance from the scrap pile and that's just the starting five. The same starting five that included multiple five inning starts from Nolasto and Crapez. Even the new guys struggled to get to the sixth making managing the bullpen even a greater challenge to have an arm up and throwing that hadn't logged multiple innings over multiple games in a row.

The bullpen is another group of, who are those guys, that nobody saw on the Angels roster last year or even last month let alone last week. The guys rotate in and out of Salt Lake so often the plane tickets all say TBA on the passenger name.

And all the while, as @Inside Pitch mentioned, there is no clubhouse meltdown. Nobody is going nuts on each other in the dugout for any reason. It could easily have been a toss in the towel season but they are still focused on winning and that doesn't happen with shell shocked troops without someone keeping the moral up.

Can you please explain how any of this has nothing to do with team management? 

Another fantastic post.  

This place has been fantastic lately with a ton of great posts and conversations.  

[tdawg87]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

The tongue in cheek nature of what Lou typed out seemed to not register with you.   

And we aren't talking about face cheeks.

[eligrba]

5 hours ago, Lou said:

Ah, I see that now..no worries., remember we agree on who deserves the credit and blame.  (I don't recall attacking you, however) Trust me, MLB isn't high up there in importance in my life.  

[Tank]

23 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Scioscia didn't bench Cowart 5 years ago after he comes up and is batting .400. He didn't sit Cron in favor of Pujols who's error cost us a game and provided nothing offensively. He didn't start Espinosa for 80 games even though he couldn't bat his weight. Those same issues are still here. Why can you not see that?

and yet, look where we are today.

some people aren't happy unless they're miserable.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

The Angels are fighting for a watered down postseason spot. A second wild card was added to give mediocre teams a chance.  A few years ago the Angels wouldn't be in the hunt. Zero postseason wins since 2009,  Scioscia fans would give him manager of the decade. 

And people who think he sucks, when I say sucks I mean if they think he is a bad manager are some of the most ignorant fans in sports.  

[stormngt]

25 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

The Angels are fighting for a watered down postseason spot. A second wild card was added to give mediocre teams a chance.  A few years ago the Angels wouldn't be in the hunt. Zero postseason wins since 2009,  Scioscia fans would give him manager of the decade. 

Three games out of the top wild card spot!  We are not in the hunt?

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

John Lackey was right.  You are one of these fans. Weaver makes a good point about fans not knowing what goes on behind closed doors, but that doesn't change the fact that fans do know what players say to the press.  Once Lackey donned the the uniform with "Boston" across the front and started running his mouth about the type of fans who show up at Angels Stadium, the boos should have been expected.  Check out the beginning of this video and the fan reaction to Lackey taking the mound in Anaheim:  Lackey hurls 7 1/3 frames of two-run ball.  Lackey gets the last laugh however, and his "scoreboard" quote is hard to dispute.

I like grape jelly. 

[Angels#1Fan]

The poll numbers are a real surprise considering the amount of criticism Scioscia gets on a daily basis here.

I'm not a Scioscia apologist by any stretch but I just don't see how anyone can overlook what the team has overcome thus far.

Honestly if the Angels go on to get a play-off spot I don't see how Scioscia isn't the hands down winner. 

[jonickell25]

Nope. Suspect bullpen handling does him in.

[Stradling]

No bad execution. 

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, jonickell25 said:

Nope. Suspect bullpen handling does him in.

Yes -- those three innings of shut down pen tonight when the Orioles had been knocking the ball out of the park including bringing in Bedrosian into the game in the 6th really bring home that point -- Right?

People whine that he's old school, but if he uses his best pitcher in a manner that is encouraged by the saber community -- you know, like facing two guys that have already gone yard...  then he's an idiot when Petit and the fourth RP of the night blows it.

So..  set roles for RPs?   The old school way?   Nevermind the situation..  is that what fans consider bullpen management?

Angel fans -- please, never change...

 

[tdawg87]

Tonight the answer is No.

[jonickell25]

I disagree. Putting the youngster in a high pressure situation was a bad call. No other way around it.

[jonickell25]

But hey, you know best right?