Teams checking in on Dee Gordon

[Chuck]

I would expand it to Bour and Gordon. 

Trade Cowart, Fletcher, Thaiss and Middleton. 

[Second Base]

At 4 years and 49 million remaining on his contract which runs through his age 33 season, he's fairly priced and should be good for the length of the agreement. 

This means the Marlins will want prospects and if the Angels are checking in, this also means the Angels have to feel comfortable taking on that contract (as they should since Hamilton is coming off the books) and sending prospects in the deal.

The Marlins have a worse farm system than the Angels do, and are in need of quality infield talent in the minor leagues, as well as major league ready, quality starting pitching.

You have to figure that conversation starts with sending them C.J. Cron and J.C. Ramirez or Parker Bridwell right off the bat. Then they'll want actual prospects because you don't trade a good player without getting something protectable in return. They'll want David Fletcher or Michael Hermosillo as well as a lower level reliever they can dream on like Jonah Wesely.

So the total deal is probably C.J. Cron, Parker Bridwell, David Fletcher and Jonah Wesely for Dee Gordon. We'd assume his whole contract. 

I think that's reasonable. We can absorb Cron's loss with Thaiss in a couple years, Bridwell with Richards/Skaggs/Heaney/Tropeano, Fletcher would be blocked at 2B and SS as is, which would force him into a utility role that he's better than. We wouldn't sacrifice any of our elite prospects.

[Chuck]

Add Bour... fixes our 1B issue.

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

And his range and overall defense at 2B is the best in the league. 

not sure that's true.  He's a good defender.  Probably one of the better defensive 2bmen.  

He's probably a 2.5-3.5 war player the next 3 years.  He's owed about 37mil over that time and his 14mil option will likely vest with the 600pa needed.  

So he'll likely be worth the contract.  If he were a free agent, he'd get that 4/50+ he's due.  Probably not much more than that so it all boils down to what it would cost in trade and if there are other options available to be had without having to lay out prospects.  

Ask yourself this - would you rather wait a year and sign Altuve for $25mil per in 2018?  

7 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I would expand it to Bour and Gordon. 

Trade Cowart, Fletcher, Thaiss and Middleton. 

I would do that.  They wouldn't.  I gotta think Thais doesn't have a ton of value on the trade market right now.  He's a 22yo 1bman at A+ ball with slightly above league avg offensive production.  Middleton is the player that gets that trade done if at all.  I think the'd want Jones, Middleton and Barria/Long as well as a couple throw ins.  They would want pitching. 

Sorry Chuck.  I feel like I'm raining on your parade.  

[Second Base]

And honestly, even the deal I mentioned may not be enough. I mean there's room for Bridwell to turn back into a pumpkin, Cron to be a bench bat, Fletcher to be a utility infielder and Wesely to somehow not make the major leagues which would mean the only thing they got in return was salary relief, which is great, but not a lasting goal. They may want Grayson Long.

Then again, there's also the chance that C.J. Hits with everyday at bats like he has before (and they flip him for more value), Bridwell's performance isn't a fluke and he really is a solid #3/4 starter, Fletcher turns into a very good starting 2B that's a spark plug and Wesely develops into an elite setup man. 

Then they're looking pretty solid in that deal.

[tdawg87]

Lol

This is the part where the official "Dee Gordon to the Angels?" thread devolves into pure chaos when we see what they actually gave up. We always, and without fail, overvalue our own guys and undervalue everyone else. 

It would probably cost Jones, Barria, and Rodriguez. Plus maybe Deveaux and Middleton as a throw in. What the hell would the Marlins want with Cron?

Edited July 11, 2017 by tdawg87

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Lol

This is the part where the official "Dee Gordon to the Angels?" thread devolves into pure chaos when we see what they actually gave up. We always, and without fail, overvalue our own guys and undervalue everyone else. 

It would probably cost Jones, Barria, and Rodriguez. Plus maybe Deveaux and Middleton as a throw in. What the hell would the Marlins want with Cron?

Oh, I know, this is my favorite part of every rumor thread, too!  Exactly right on Cron.  People are talking about doing a trade for Gordon AND Bour that involves Cron? Bour and Cron make the same money this year and both are under team control until 2021--but Bour is already what people thought Cron might turn into.  So why would they want the shittier version of the guy they already have??

And Parker Bridwell isn't going to be a major piece of any trade.

[Second Base]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Lol

This is the part where the official "Dee Gordon to the Angels?" thread devolves into pure chaos when we see what they actually gave up. We always, and without fail, overvalue our own guys and undervalue everyone else. 

It would probably cost Jones, Barria, and Rodriguez. Plus maybe Deveaux and Middleton as a throw in. What the hell would the Marlins want with Cron?

You think Bour would survive a rebuild where they're trading everything but Stanton? Not likely. Plus Bour has played OF before in the minors and looks athletic enough to do it better than Trumbo did.

Now that I think on it, I think they'd probably want more in the deal. But you throwing names like Jones, Middleton and Barria out there is nonsense.

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Oh, I know, this is my favorite part of every rumor thread, too!  Exactly right on Cron.  People are talking about doing a trade for Gordon AND Bour that involves Cron? Bour and Cron make the same money this year and both are under team control until 2021--but Bour is already what people thought Cron might turn into.  So why would they want the shittier version of the guy they already have??

And Parker Bridwell isn't going to be a major piece of any trade.

Yeah I never said anything about Bour and Gordon, I don't know which orface you pulled that from.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

You think Bour would survive a rebuild where they're trading everything but Stanton? Not likely. Plus Bour has played OF before in the minors and looks athletic enough to do it better than Trumbo did.

Now that I think on it, I think they'd probably want more in the deal. But you throwing names like Jones, Middleton and Barria out there is nonsense.

I'm sure you would have said the exact same thing about Newcomb and Ellis going to Atlanta. We all did. 

[Ohtaniland]

18 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Add Bour... fixes our 1B issue.

We don't have the pieces for him. If we did the Yankees would be able to give them more. 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

Yeah I never said anything about Bour and Gordon, I don't know which orface you pulled that from.

Believe it or not, not every comment is about you.  I didn't say you mentioned Bour.  But Chuck did.  Go back and read.

(And it's orifice.)

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Lol

This is the part where the official "Dee Gordon to the Angels?" thread devolves into pure chaos when we see what they actually gave up. We always, and without fail, overvalue our own guys and undervalue everyone else. 

It would probably cost Jones, Thaiss, and Rodriguez. Plus maybe Deveaux as a throw in. What the hell would the Marlins want with Cron?

Cron would be a throw in.  We'd be selling low on him.  His 26yo season was basically Bour's 27yo season.  Problem is that CJ took a step back this year big time.  It may be because he's was relegated to platoon status.  I'l like to think that, but another team may not believe he'll rebound.  Either way, trading him now at his lowest value he's been since we drafted him is probably a bad idea.  

The Marlins could actually look pretty smart trading for Cron right now.  Bour is 29 with a break out season.  He was absolutely dreadfully miserable vs. lefties before this season where was previously posting a sub .600 ops and in 2017 he's got an ops over 1.000 in 60 ab.  So he either figured something out or he's going to regress.  If it's the latter, he's pretty much a platoon player  with poor defense.  A considerable risk.  

Cron could just as easily go back to last years numbers with some improvement and we'd look like schmucks.  And Cron wouldn't even be the centerpiece of that deal.  Barria/Long, Middleton, Cron and a couple of throw ins.  We could end up looking very bad in that kind of deal.  very bad.  Stealing Jobu's rum bad.  

How about giving up a minor prospect for Kinsler for a year and then tap a FA market that includes Altuve, Dozier, LeMahieu, and Daniel Murphy?

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Believe it or not, not every comment is about you.  I didn't say you mentioned Bour.  But Chuck did.  Go back and read.

(And it's orifice.)

he want's to show his orface.  

[Second Base]

7 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Believe it or not, not every comment is about you.  I didn't say you mentioned Bour.  But Chuck did.  Go back and read.

(And it's orifice.)

You said people were talking about it.....which people?  You mean Chuck?  Does he count for multiple people because he's the founder?  And thanks for the condescending correction, tool.  Please go and monitor the whole board for all spelling and grammar mistakes since you're obviously the acting authority on such things. 

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Scotty@AW said:

  Does he count for multiple people because he's the founder? 

Yes.  You didn't get the memo?

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm sure you would have said the exact same thing about Newcomb and Ellis going to Atlanta. We all did. 

I said worse. 

[Second Base]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

Yes.  You didn't get the memo?

Shouldn't you be off correcting the rest of the grammatical mistakes on the board, or were you just being an ass toward me?

[Docwaukee]

pritchett is a smart dude but he's kind of a dick.  Probably someone we'd all be friends with.......cuz his mom is hot.  

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Speed doesn't age well. 

Most definitely this. Speed is a young man's skill. Since a big part of his offensive production thus far has been SBs, that is something to figure in when deciding whether to do this. By extension, one also has to assume that he has gotten a fair number of leg hits, which will also decline.

I believe that I have talked myself out of any initial enthusiasm I might have had for this deal.

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Most definitely this. Speed is a young man's skill. Since a big part of his offensive production thus far has been SBs, that is something to figure in when deciding whether to do this. By extension, one also has to assume that he has gotten a fair number of leg hits, which will also decline.

I believe that I have talked myself out of any initial enthusiasm I might have had for this deal.

speed is especially important to someone who doesn't walk.  A big part of Gordon's value is his batting avg.  In his 'breakout' PED induced season, his babip was .383.  This year it's .341.  He's literally a one tool player.  

[Chuck]

Bour or bust IMO.

They can keep Gordon.

I'm sure we can get Bour for Thaiss, Cron and a young arm. 

[Chuck]

Then dump Espinosa for Cowart. 

[arch stanton]

I love the idea of fast, athletic MI's but Gordon has plenty of question marks. Ideally they'll go into next year with speed/on base guys 2B and in LF and get some legit power on both corners on the IF. Any degree of that is probably an upgrade over the present situation

[Second Base]

45 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

pritchett is a smart dude but he's kind of a dick.  Probably someone we'd all be friends with.......cuz his mom is hot.  

#DorothyMantoothIsASaint