SI.com Pujols

[Inside Pitch]

Sorry if this has been posted already ...   http://www.si.com/mlb/2017/03/02/albert-pujols-los-angeles-angels-600-home-runs-contract    Lots of numbers and historical connections in the article -- should be fun to see the usual suspects go about spewing negatives.  

In reality, here is what has happened after Pujols went West: He has aged the way baseball players normally age. He was not going to be better, or even as good, in his mid-30s with Los Angeles as he was in his mid-20s with St. Louis. That kind of fairy-tale career arc curbed once testing for steroids began in 2004.

By fixating on money and memes, we miss the hitting brilliance of Pujols. Over the past three seasons, for instance, Pujols has hit 99 home runs and driven in 319 runs. Only four other sluggers in baseball were that productive: Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Donaldson, Nolan Arenado and David Ortiz.

In baseball history, only three other players have matched Pujols’s home run and RBI totals in their age-34–36 seasons without a connection to steroids: Babe Ruth, Johnny Mize and Andres Galarraga.

 

[Second Base]

It's a way to give perspective as to what Pujols is. Minus steroids, I'm just not convinced players can be MVP caliber into their late 30's or even 40's. This really calls David Ortiz's performance into question. He did steroids before, and somehow was better at age 40 than they were in their 30's or 20's. 

Pujols is what a legitimate great player looks like. He was great through this 20's and good in his early 30's. He's been solid in his mid-30's. Chances are, he'll be simply ok in his late 30's. It's natural, we age, and without the help of performance enhancing drugs, we decline.

[Docwaukee]

decent article although I will say there are some assumptions I don't agree with.  

Albert has had a remarkable career so far.  As a baseball fan, he's certainly worth following.  

As an Angel fan he's been frustrating because you know his past and you know what he's being paid.  But overall he's been a solid middle of the lineup presence.   

The author states that he's aged like a regular baseball player and he's correct.  The problem is that most inner circle HOFers who had done what he did to the point in his career where we got him didn't age like normal players.  Granted, that was a small sample of players, but his aging curve is an outlier.  

The biggest contributor to Albert's decline isn't his ability to put bat to ball.  It's his lower half essentially falling apart.  A considerable portion of that is on his weight gain over the last few years.  The other thing that's frustrated us fans is the exact thing he mentions in the article.  That he hasn't and likely won't change his approach.  

He's obviously lost some bat speed, and that is to be expected, but instead of sacrificing a little power to maintain discipline, he's done the opposite.  Again, part of his evolution from a line to line hitter to a pull hitter has to do with his decreasing power to the opposite field and the fact that it's really difficult to hit hrs to RF in anaheim.  So, to me, he actually did change his approach.  Just not how we would have hoped.  

By all accounts, Albert is a good human being and that's great.  But I feel like his legacy as a baseball player would have been better off if he maintained his avg/obp as opposed to sacrificing those things to maintain his power.  

Hating Albert because someone else gave him 240mil to do what he does isn't justified imo.  But being frustrated with him as an Angel fan as it seems he's left some of his talent on the table is fair.  

[Angel Oracle]

He actually has pretty much satisfied my expectations for him, after his 2013 season was cut short.

[Inside Pitch]

40 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

By all accounts, Albert is a good human being and that's great.  But I feel like his legacy as a baseball player would have been better off if he maintained his avg/obp as opposed to sacrificing those things to maintain his power.  

It's possible he just couldn't do it and decided to try to chase power.  The increase in the use of the shift has definitely had an impact on his average which in turn knocked his OBP down a ton -- an area that was already being massively impacted by the huge drop-off in IBBs.   AP's walk totals were always propped up but a large number of IBB -- the days of his getting 30, 40, free passes are long gone.  He was more Vlad in that respect than he was an walk machine.  I'm, guessing his legs having cratered also made it much harder for him to stay back on a pitch and drive the ball the opposite way.   Not sure he can physically do that consistently.

40 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Hating Albert because someone else gave him 240mil to do what he does isn't justified imo.  But being frustrated with him as an Angel fan as it seems he's left some of his talent on the table is fair.  

And I think that's sort of what the article was trying to point out -- for many people here the issue is the money he is being paid relative to his production.  

40 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

decent article although I will say there are some assumptions I don't agree with.  

It's the typical ST fluff piece no doubt -- but it does offer a slightly different perspective and makes some interesting if not entirely important comparisons...

I enjoyed your perspective on AP.   

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Sorry if this has been posted already ...   http://www.si.com/mlb/2017/03/02/albert-pujols-los-angeles-angels-600-home-runs-contract    Lots of numbers and historical connections in the article -- should be fun to see the usual suspects go about spewing negatives.  

In reality, here is what has happened after Pujols went West: He has aged the way baseball players normally age. He was not going to be better, or even as good, in his mid-30s with Los Angeles as he was in his mid-20s with St. Louis. That kind of fairy-tale career arc curbed once testing for steroids began in 2004.

By fixating on money and memes, we miss the hitting brilliance of Pujols. Over the past three seasons, for instance, Pujols has hit 99 home runs and driven in 319 runs. Only four other sluggers in baseball were that productive: Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Donaldson, Nolan Arenado and David Ortiz.

In baseball history, only three other players have matched Pujols’s home run and RBI totals in their age-34–36 seasons without a connection to steroids: Babe Ruth, Johnny Mize and Andres Galarraga.

 

I thought the rbi was meaningless? Didn't someone post something that he had the most at bats in baseball last year with men in scoring position?

[DMVol]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

He actually has pretty much satisfied my expectations for him, after his 2013 season was cut short.

Agreed....my expectations weren't that he'd hit like he did in his prime just that he didn't regress too much and cause problems when Scioscia sits him down (which is inevitable I guess at some point)....If we get 2016 level performance, as a DH, for a couple more years, I won't be disappointed....dumb signing but it could have been, to this point, worse....

[Inside Pitch]

24 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I thought the rbi was meaningless? Didn't someone post something that he had the most at bats in baseball last year with men in scoring position?

Verducci actually touches on how RBI's aren't all on the player.    It's a pretty well rounded article -- both rates and counting stats are mixed in.

Before advanced statistics, stars aging between 34 and 36 with similar Triple Crown numbers as Pujols (.261, 99, 319) were venerated: Mike Schmidt (.281, 106, 318), Reggie Jackson (.275, 95, 266) and Harmon Killebrew (.253, 95, 306). The RBI has since been devalued, seen more as a statistic of opportunity. But Pujols’s skill at making contact in those spots deserves special notice. Even last year, at 36, and even with his many chances while hitting behind Trout, Pujols was a much tougher out with runners in scoring position than more acclaimed hitters with similar opportunities. Pay particular attention to his ability to put the ball in play with runners in scoring position.

 

[Ohtaniland]

Albert's great HOF St. louis years created a lot of Angels hype when we signed him. Build a team around Albert and let's not waste the Weaver years....He didn't exactly make us a better team and he was extremely lucky that Trout became a superstar which helped conceal his decline. Vlad's Angels teams were much better. It's pretty clear from the SI story that Albert plans on being here the next five seasons so championship expectations will decrease as those years go by. His playoff performances of the past were amazing but his one appearance as an Angels player was pretty disappointing. After all that's why we brought him here.

Not one playoff win since he arrived so yeah, the usual suspect doesn't think Albert the Angel ever helped us get to the next level. 

 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

Albert's great HOF St. louis years created a lot of Angels hype when we signed him. Build a team around Albert and let's not waste the Weaver years....He didn't exactly make us a better team and he was extremely lucky that Trout became a superstar which helped conceal his decline. Vlad's Angels teams were much better. It's pretty clear from the SI story that Albert plans on being here the next five seasons so championship expectations will decrease as those years go by. His playoff performances of the past were amazing but his one appearance as an Angels player was pretty disappointing. After all that's why we brought him here.

Not one playoff win since he arrived so yeah, the usual suspect doesn't think Albert the Angel ever helped us get to the next level. 

 

Not your best effort, but didn't disappoint 7/10.   

[NorCal Halo]

I think the money was worth it for one reason: he has mentored Trout.

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

I think the money was worth it for one reason: he has mentored Trout.

That's a pretty expensive mentoring tab....

[aznhockeyguy]

32 minutes ago, NorCal Halo said:

I think the money was worth it for one reason: he has mentored Trout.

There are plenty of baseball players to mentor Trout that would've been a lot cheaper.

[eligrba]

1.  Not my money.

2.  Pujols comes to play everyday, regardless of his physical ailments-can't fault him for being mentally tough...

3. Pujols has been a consummate professional

4.  Pujols gives back to the community

I have no issue with Albert......he is doing all that an honorable man can do under the circumstances.  Integrity is tough to appreciate in sports when an athlete's temporary success often determines the level of their public admiration.

[JustATroutFan]

Pujols has become underrated to me. All of Pujols' 5 seasons with the Angels up to this point has been solid. He might not be living up to the expectations that a lot of fans had when the Angels signed him but he's still a good hitter. Does not hit for high average anymore but gets on base at an okay clip and can still for tremendous pop.

[zenmaster]

So many people are angry at Pujols or disappointed at him because he's paid so much and not producing what we paid. This anger is really misdirected imo and should be towards those who paid him and not the guy who took the money. Should he have told us, oh no, I'm getting older, I can't possibly accept that money, how about 7 million less per year? I can live up to that!

[Ohtaniland]

25 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

So many people are angry at Pujols or disappointed at him because he's paid so much and not producing what we paid. This anger is really misdirected imo and should be towards those who paid him and not the guy who took the money. Should he have told us, oh no, I'm getting older, I can't possibly accept that money, how about 7 million less per year? I can live up to that!

He would still be playing in St. louis at that price. 

[Angel Oracle]

This shows how far gone Hackilton is.   Not even Pujols could get through to him.

[gurn67]

Again, the Cardinals' front office showed why they're able to put a team on the field that can compete for the playoffs and World Series EVERY year.

[CaliAngel]

I'm so fed up with Sports Illustrated I can't remember the last time I read an article from them. 

[yk9001]

On 3/6/2017 at 5:23 PM, NorCal Halo said:

I think the money was worth it for one reason: he has mentored Trout.

Jesus.

That is always the last excuse given for older, expensive, underperforming players.

The mentor card.

An Angels classic from all the way back to the Tim Belcher days.

 

My favorite Pujols mentoring method is when he'd always foul a pitch off when Trout had clearly stolen the base.

[NorCal Halo]

Jesus was a good mentor as well.  He gets 10% of the revenue.

[yk9001]

Jesus' philosophy is in line with Huston Street - big fan of the save.