Keepers

[mulwin444]

With the amount of injuries we've had, Eppler and co have had the opportunity to audition a group of fringy cast-offs for roles in 2017.  If you had the power, who are you keeping?

Guerra - the "Good Guerra", has a 3.20 ERA 1.066 WHIP 126 ERA+ and only 7 BB in 50.2 IP.  He's not overpowering but he gets guys out and makes batters earn their trip on base.

Ramirez - anyone who can hit triple digits on the gun needs a closer look, especially when the farm is barren of MLB-ready power arms.  He hasn't done much to this point in his career but has made enough of a statement in 40.1 IP to warrant a further look.  

Marte - He started slow (.219 .272 OBP .672 OPS in the 1st half) but has come on strong since the All Star break with a .283 .338 OBP .847 OPS 127 OPS+ and made a case for being a part of the 2017 discussion in either LF or 3B.  

 

[Angel Oracle]

Don't forget Andrew Bailey.

Bailey, D. Guerra, Ramirez, a healthy Bedrosian, a healthy Street, Middleton and Alvarez, with Alcantara and Valdez (if harnessing control) in the mix could be an intriguing pen in 2017.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Keep everyone not named Trout

If you want to provide a thoughtful explanation on this then great.  If not, I am gonna delete it as a troll post.  

[mulwin444]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Don't forget Andrew Bailey.

Bailey, D. Guerra, Ramirez, a healthy Bedrosian, a healthy Street, Middleton and Alvarez, with Alcantara and Valdez (if harnessing control) in the mix could be an intriguing pen in 2017.

Bailey is intriguing.  He's obviously struggled the past few years and was awful in Philly but has done enough to at least get a BP look for next season.  Even is he settles in as a 6th - 7th inning guy, he'd have a place.  The 2014 98 win team had Grili, Smith and Street that was able to lock down innings 7-9 and we need that formula again if we hope to have a chance in '17.

[Docwaukee]

28 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Bailey is intriguing.  He's obviously struggled the past few years and was awful in Philly but has done enough to at least get a BP look for next season.  Even is he settles in as a 6th - 7th inning guy, he'd have a place.  The 2014 98 win team had Grili, Smith and Street that was able to lock down innings 7-9 and we need that formula again if we hope to have a chance in '17.

I like Guerra but don't think he has the chops to be one of those guys who locks down the 7th or 8th with a lead.  I see him as a 6th inning guy.  Ramirez is a conundrum.  Sometimes his fastball has good movement.  Other times it's straight down the middle.  2017 could work out well for him to establish himself.  But I am not giving him the ball with a small lead unless I am standing on the edge of the dugout with my hook.  

Marte's bat is legit.  His 3b defense is avg.  He's an absolute butcher in LF and he's not very good at 1b.  He's not very athletic so even if they give him some winter ball in left field, I think it's putting a square peg in a round hole.  But he's a keeper.  Ege and Bailey are interesting but they are potential depth pieces at best imo.  

We need three goo arms to have a solid pen.  Something I doubt we are going to pursue this offseason.  There are going to be more scrap heap pickups.  Hopefully a couple of these guys will stick.  

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I like Guerra but don't think he has the chops to be one of those guys who locks down the 7th or 8th with a lead.  I see him as a 6th inning guy.  Ramirez is a conundrum.  Sometimes his fastball has good movement.  Other times it's straight down the middle.  2017 could work out well for him to establish himself.  But I am not giving him the ball with a small lead unless I am standing on the edge of the dugout with my hook.  

Marte's bat is legit.  His 3b defense is avg.  He's an absolute butcher in LF and he's not very good at 1b.  He's not very athletic so even if they give him some winter ball in left field, I think it's putting a square peg in a round hole.  But he's a keeper.  Ege and Bailey are interesting but they are potential depth pieces at best imo.  

We need three goo arms to have a solid pen.  Something I doubt we are going to pursue this offseason.  There are going to be more scrap heap pickups.  Hopefully a couple of these guys will stick.  

Agree on both Guerra and Ramirez.  Ramirez is good middle relief arm but not lights out.  He doesn't walk people, which is a plus, and I think he has a place in a decent bullpen.  Ramirez' arm is attractive but the fact he doesn't miss too many bats is concerning.  

Marte has the pop we need from 3B and can play the position, he'd be ideal.  Unfortunately, Escobar doesn't have an alternative position so he's kind of stuck playing where he can this point.  I'd like them to try and trade Escobar for pitching help if possible but we'd need a lead-off hitter to replace him, ideally in LF (Fowler would be nice), or we are just shifting the holes around at that point,

 

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Don't forget Andrew Bailey.

Bailey, D. Guerra, Ramirez, a healthy Bedrosian, a healthy Street, Middleton and Alvarez, with Alcantara and Valdez (if harnessing control) in the mix could be an intriguing pen in 2017.

Isn't Bailey a fa?

[Troll Daddy]

I like Marte's potential for third base but I'd give it another year or at least until the trade deadline if the team is out of contention. 

Same goes for Cowart. 

If the team signs a lead off guy for LF ... you still keep Escobar's bat in the lineup and move Calhoun down in the order. 

No one should let this season influence their thinking about competing next season. 

 

[70runner]

Ramirez is definitely a keeper, can't teach upper 90s, but you can teach offspeed stuff to balance the portfolio. 

Counting on Street to return to lockdown form is fools gold.  He was already showing signs of age, loss of velocity, before the injury.  Need a refresh on 7-9 strategy, assuming the Angels are in enough games to even worry about it.  Bedrosian, Morin (still young), even Ramirez with some offspeed upgrades.  Guerra has some 7-9 potential as well.

We finally get a top shelf leadoff hitter and some want to dump him.  Yea, I know he's mediocre at 3B.  The lineup top 3 is as good as anyone, better than most.  Offense isn't really the key issue, especially if the black hole in LF is filled.  Pujols will be another year older on failing wheels, probably fatter, but oh well.  Cron seems to be coming around...if he learns how to hit offspeed stuff look out. 

The key issue:

[totdprods]

34 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Isn't Bailey a fa?

Bailey is a FA, but if we have interest in bringing him back we are probably in prime position. He isn't going to accumulate enough innings this season to open up the market for him, and we obviously will have a need. Not a given, but think we're likely to retain him.

Not quite as sour on Street as some. I don't know if he will be as good as he was when he first got here, but I don't think he's a lost cause yet. I think his struggles this year were a perfect storm created by lingering injuries, infrequent use, some natural decline, and hate to say it, but heart. He'd expressed interest in retiring before he was traded to the Halos because the Pads we're going nowhere. He's got a bunch of young kiddos and is very active in real estate here in booming real estate Austin, where his family name is already entrenched in local sports lore. I think when the '16 season went south he lost interest pretty quick.

But I also think he's enough of a competitor that he will come back focused next season with a fresh start, and hopefully feeling better after surgery. Just need him to pitch well into June or July.

[Angel Oracle]

Street is a prime July trade piece, if he can stay healthy.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

I like Marte's potential for third base but I'd give it another year or at least until the trade deadline if the team is out of contention. 

Same goes for Cowart. 

If the team signs a lead off guy for LF ... you still keep Escobar's bat in the lineup and move Calhoun down in the order. 

No one should let this season influence their thinking about competing next season. 

 

really?  so we should just ignore the three guys that had TJ surg who were supposed to anchor or at least be part of our rotation and how they aren't going to pitch next year?  

once again, your fortune cookie rhetoric is about as profound as a Scioscia post game interview.  

[Troll Daddy]

32 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

really?  so we should just ignore the three guys that had TJ surg who were supposed to anchor or at least be part of our rotation and how they aren't going to pitch next year?  

once again, your fortune cookie rhetoric is about as profound as a Scioscia post game interview.  

Have you ever heard the phase 'pompous asshat' ?

Dude, you lost me at three guys. Have a nice day. 

[Docwaukee]

41 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Have you ever heard the phase 'pompous asshat' ?

Dude, you lost me at three guys. Have a nice day. 

I have heard that phrase.  To me, in reference a message board, it applies to the attention whore whose posts generally lack any sort of thoughtfulness or usefulness.  It applies to the person who makes no effort to learn and understand concepts pertinent to the subject matter yet bash those concepts as useless and not worthy of their time.  It applies to the person who thinks their flimsy one stop shop contrived expressions are somehow meaningful and cavernous such that we should revel in their perception altering abilities.  

so yeah.  it rings a bell.  

[Troll Daddy]

31 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I have heard that phrase.  To me, in reference a message board, it applies to the attention whore whose posts generally lack any sort of thoughtfulness or usefulness.  It applies to the person who makes no effort to learn and understand concepts pertinent to the subject matter yet bash those concepts as useless and not worthy of their time.  It applies to the person who thinks their flimsy one stop shop contrived expressions are somehow meaningful and cavernous such that we should revel in their perception altering abilities.  

so yeah.  it rings a bell.  

Great! So you knew I was speaking of you. 

 

[Oz27]

28 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I have heard that phrase.  To me, in reference a message board, it applies to the attention whore whose posts generally lack any sort of thoughtfulness or usefulness.  It applies to the person who makes no effort to learn and understand concepts pertinent to the subject matter yet bash those concepts as useless and not worthy of their time.  It applies to the person who thinks their flimsy one stop shop contrived expressions are somehow meaningful and cavernous such that we should revel in their perception altering abilities.  

so yeah.  it rings a bell.  

I love this so much. If it were possible to give a post a million likes, I would have done so. His pathetic reply makes it even better.

As for the topic of this thread, Marte is the obvious one. I like the idea of getting him reps in LF in winter ball and spring training, to see if maybe we can make that work. However he is totally out of his depth out there at the moment, so he shouldn't be considered a true option out there unless he can show substantial improvement. But he still has a use as a 3B option, either in isolation or in a platoon with Cowart, and a pinch hitter backing up Cron and Pujols.

As for the others, excitement over them has much more to do with our lack of talent than their level of ability. Guerra has excellent control but a ridiculously low strikeout rate for a reliever. His line drive rate is above average and his ground ball rate is below average, yet he has a BABIP below .270. I don't see how that is sustainable. I would keep him, for sure, but I see him more as bullpen filler than a high leverage arm going forward. J.C. Ramirez draws an incredible amount of ground balls (55 per cent), which is obviously really good, but doesn't strike out as many as you would like either. He is another who may be useful filler but is likely nothing more than that.

As for Bailey, I don't get why anyone would want to give him more than a minor league deal with a spring training invite. Are we really just going to ignore five years of not being good because of 6.1 IP with us? Maybe you'd consider it if he had been perfect in that sample size, but he hasn't been. There is a reason we were able to bring him in - a terrible Phillies team gave up on him after he was awful. If Bailey wants to come back on a minor league deal, then sure, bring him back. But committing any money to him would be madness.

[mulwin444]

Awesome...a legit post turns into troll bait.  

 

 

[totdprods]

Guerra used to be a pretty well-regarded SP prospect, right? Could they kick around stretching him out?

[Oz27]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Guerra used to be a pretty well-regarded SP prospect, right? Could they kick around stretching him out?

I assume when he was a SP prospect he was throwing his curveball now. It is only for show at the moment, he only throws it eight per cent of the time. I would guess for him to start he would need to throw it significantly more and presumably the reason he isn't throwing it much now is it isn't very good.

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Awesome...a legit post turns into troll bait.  

 

 

I guessing you also didn't approve of my take on Marte/Cowart. 

Doesn't really cost you anything to hang onto Guerra and Ramirez.  You give them both a ST invite and cross your fingers. 

Chacin is the bigger question mark#freeagent

One thing for sure is that the FO will be very busy this coming off season. 

[Docwaukee]

Chacin's numbers as a reliever this year - 28.2 ip, 24h, 11bb, 35k.  Since the middle of August, his fastball has been about 2 mph faster than when he first came here.  He's another guy who's pitch mix has changed since early july where he abandoned the cutter upon going to the pen.  He also totally changed his release point on july 10th to 3/4ths.  

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Chacin's numbers as a reliever this year - 28.2 ip, 24h, 11bb, 35k.  Since the middle of August, his fastball has been about 2 mph faster than when he first came here.  He's another guy who's pitch mix has changed since early july where he abandoned the cutter upon going to the pen.  He also totally changed his release point on july 10th to 3/4ths.  

Way down to bring Chacin back in the Cory Rasmus role. Long reliever and spot starter.

[totdprods]

Ege should be mentioned in any discussion for next year's pen too. He has been absolute death to lefties in the minors and he's done a solid job in the bigs this year. Sosh just needs to treat him as a lefty-specialist and not like he has done with Alvarez. 

[Angel Oracle]

Alvarez and Rasmus are on the ropes.   Rasmus for sure, and Alvarez if Ege comes through.

With Simmons hitting well, wouldn't he be a potential lead off option in 2017?   Then move Marte to 3B and trade Escobar in the off-season?    Cowart to 2B and find a LF in the off-season?

[VariousCrap]

52 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Alvarez and Rasmus are on the ropes.   Rasmus for sure, and Alvarez if Ege comes through.

With Simmons hitting well, wouldn't he be a potential lead off option in 2017?   Then move Marte to 3B and trade Escobar in the off-season?    Cowart to 2B and find a LF in the off-season?

 

I love the hitting Simmons has done this season and I'm very glad the Angels have him, but I don't think he'd be a good choice for lead-off because he doesn't walk enough.  I think a lead-off hitter should have a .350 OBP minimum.