Orange County Register: A look at the Angels' 2017 payroll and the luxury tax

[Second Base]

This is probably Fletch's worst article to date, full of holes in logic and willful ignorance. He pretends we have no pitching or catching depth and then tries to sell the reader on a lack of finances from a team that's filthy rich and clearly should be in "win-now" mode.

[Angelsjunky]

Scotty, I don't think the team is quite yet in a clear "win now" mode. Yes, they are an 85-win team, which means a few tweaks and some good luck and they're in the postseason. But they aren't an old team, or a team with lots of its best players going to free agency in the next year or two. They are a team with a lot of starting pitching depth but a weak offensive core (after Trout) that is several pieces away from being very good. They're also a team with a core of players that are young enough that they should remain within spitting distance for several years to come.

 

In a way we aren't far from where we were a year ago, when the team was coming off 98 wins and Dipoto was only looking to tweak and there. The difference is that we have since realized that the team over-performed in 2014. But it only fell to 85 wins. The team probably won't be back to great (95+ wins) in 2016 without substantial signings/trades this offseason, but they can probably get to 90 wins with just a few tweaks and some improvement from the players on the existing team.

 

I think what we're seeing in Eppler is a guy who is more conservative than Dipoto but less so than Stoneman, which might be why Arte hired him. And given the current configuration of the team--with some good youngish talent, but not bursting at the seems but enough to build from--he might be the right guy for the job.

[NrM]

I don't think fletcher thinks heaney, skaggs and trop are as good as most on here believe.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Poozy

[Stradling]

Scotty I think you'll still get your point across if you say you disagree and why about Fletcher's article. Not sure you have to use terms like, "worst article to date" or "willful ignorance". Not sure your beef with Fletcher but I'd appreciate you treating him, a board member and a contributor to our Fanfest, with a little more respect.

[Jobu]

Does anyone really think the luxury tax threshold is going down? The game is flush with cash and, while many think that the sports TV bubble might burst, that's not clear or certain in any way that should alter negotiations. I seem to recall Arte joining a couple of other owners in supporting Lerner for commissioner instead of Manfred with the express purpose of "getting tough" with the player's union. Sounds like he's losing his stomach for Big Dick Baseball ™.

[halosfan1970]

Scotty I think you'll still get your point across if you say you disagree and why about Fletcher's article. Not sure you have to use terms like, "worst article to date" or "willful ignorance". Not sure your beef with Fletcher but I'd appreciate you treating him, a board member and a contributor to our Fanfest, with a little more respect.

 

Is Fletcher due some privilege or deference that other members of this board are not?

 

While somewhat argumentative, Scotty made a direct critique of Fletcher's article and logic. A moderator of this board, in this very thread, told a board member "This is the dumbest thing you've ever come up with." 

 

How about a little consistency?

[Stradling]

Is Fletcher due some privilege or deference that other members of this board are not?

While somewhat argumentative, Scotty made a direct critique of Fletcher's article and logic. A moderator of this board, in this very thread, told a board member "This is the dumbest thing you've ever come up with."

How about a little consistency?

The difference is I don't care how people treat me or other mods on here. I just think someone from the press that is a beat writer for the team that also goes out of his way to be not only an active member on here but also participates in our fanfest panel discussion deserves better.

As it relates to me telling Claude he's a dummy, I'm sure Claude is used to it from me as we banter back and forth on here and are perfectly fine in real life.

[Ohtaniland]

The difference is I don't care how people treat me or other mods on here. I just think someone from the press that is a beat writer for the team that also goes out of his way to be not only an active member on here but also participates in our fanfest panel discussion deserves better.

As it relates to me telling Claude he's a dummy, I'm sure Claude is used to it from me as we banter back and forth on here and are perfectly fine in real life.

I'm good with being called a dummy. Carry on.

[halosfan1970]

I went back and re-read the linked article from Jeff Fletcher.

 

"Willful ignorance" seems to be a fair critique. I have not read every one of Fletcher's articles over the years, so I can't comment on "worst article to date." 

[Second Base]

Scotty I think you'll still get your point across if you say you disagree and why about Fletcher's article. Not sure you have to use terms like, "worst article to date" or "willful ignorance". Not sure your beef with Fletcher but I'd appreciate you treating him, a board member and a contributor to our Fanfest, with a little more respect.

 

I'm really not sorry at all.  "Willful Ignorance" is EXACTLY what I meant to say.  He knows about the team, as much as most members here.  He knowingly ignored some pretty significant details in order to paint that picture in the article.  

[Stradling]

I don't expect you to be sorry Scotty, I would hope you'd respect what he does for us. Especially considering the time and effort you put into this community I just ask you to respect that. If you're incapable so be it, my guess is you're capable but perhaps unwilling.

[Second Base]

Yeah, I really don't care if you want to treat Fletch like he's more important than any other member.  You can kiss that butt from here to the Bay Area and back, it won't change his article or how I feel bout it. 

[Stradling]

Never mind, keep being your awesome self centered self.

[Second Base]

Merry Christmas, Strad.  I mean it.  The offseason is a long, cold, arduous time.  It's good to be spending it here disagreeing with you. 

[Stradling]

Merry Christmas Scotty.

[tdawg87]

Now kiss

[Ohtaniland]

Fletcher also needs a kiss.

[OregonLAA]

It'll be nice when the offseason is over and people will stop spewing the same shit over and over again.

Also tdawgs last comment had me rolling and my wife thinks I'm losing my mind

[halosfan1970]

Now kiss

 

Fletcher also needs a kiss.

 

It's hard to kiss him once your nose is already that deep.

[tomsred]

It's hard to kiss him once your nose is already that deep.

 

I was getting all warm and cuddly, and you destroyed everything in one sentence.

[Docwaukee]

I don't see fletch losing any sleep. Scott's opinion was A little harsh for my taste, but that's his opinion. I didn't think it was overly disrespectful. Scotty puts a lot of time and effort into his stuff, and when he posts it here (which is putting yourself out there), people aren't afraid to hold his feet to the fire.

Keep in mind as well that Jeff has never been afraid to call out posts and set people straight. His method isn't the same, but it's still reasonably blunt.

I would hope that he sees the dialogue as part of the fun.

[Docwaukee]

I've been thinking about it, and I think that what you said here is exactly what has me feeling so uneasy about the teams current 'direction.' It's exactly what I said on here at the end of the season, that our focus needs to be on making sure we don't get caught in the mediocrity trap. It seems that is the current plan.

 

We aren't going to do enough to really be good next season, we'll blow our new found wad on some mediocre players next offseason, we'll regress a bit in 2018 and be locked in to our payroll through 2020, as we get a little worse each year. Finally Trout will leave and the team will be forced to really try it's hand at a rebuild. Since we've been putting off the rebuild for so many years we're gona have to take a long approach. I have my doubts that Moreno will sign off on really tanking. We will likely end up with expensive 70 win teams for the foreseeable future.

Back on track.

Don't get me wrong, I want the team to win and I'll cheer for them, but if we are gonna miss the playoffs, I want to see them miss hard. But that's a problem as well. That would mean a bunch of guys we are counting on to do well would have failed hard and worth less. Maybe he's not a believer in the current team and is doing just enough to keep us in the race so he can turn a bunch of guys over when the free agent market has no one to draw from next year.

I kinda doubt it though. It's more likely the cold hard truth that this is his main source of income and the business aspect outweighs the winning. He has tried to give us cake and we won't be fooled anymore.

[QuinlansMinion]

Arte is going to get his 3 million fans next season, im not sure what hes really worried about.  If he wants to increase the Angels value, its in his own best interest to field a competitive team that can win a World Series.  

 

If hes not happy that the money hes already spending is not getting the results he wants, maybe he should start looking into the managing situation and holding guys accountable, and im not talking about the pitching/hitting coaches.  Hes already on board with Eppler trading away top prospects that would be on cheap deals for years to come.  It seems like at this point Arte is content with fielding an average team with Mike Trout on it, in hopes of riding his greatness to a miraculous division title.  This way he gets his 3 million fans, and doesnt have to worry about his wallet.  

[Angelsjunky]

It also could be that he looks at his previous big contracts (including Wells) and sees disaster after disaster. I can understand why he'd be hesitant to pull the trigger again. Maybe he wants to be more conservative and focus on building long-term.

 

The point being, we just don't know.

[Stradling]

It also could be that he looks at his previous big contracts (including Wells) and sees disaster after disaster. I can understand why he'd be hesitant to pull the trigger again. Maybe he wants to be more conservative and focus on building long-term.

The point being, we just don't know.

I would have no problem if he decided to do things different but why start that philosophy in the middle of the off season rather than the beginning.