Good work, NRA

[Crampknees]

Ha, good find nate.  

it is funny how that came out Geoff, don't change it. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Kurt Swanson

[Spirit]

People sword fight for fun.  That doesn't mean that they aren't playing with a deadly weapon.

 

 

 

Agreed.  Just like people race cars.  It doesn't mean they aren't playing with a daddy weapon. 

[nate]

Cars are not weapons, that is the difference.

 

Just because people play with swords, doesn't mean their primary use isn't killing.

[Thomas]

Cars are not weapons, that is the difference.

 

Just because people play with swords, doesn't mean their primary use isn't killing.

 

There can be only one!!!!!

[Spirit]

The primary, secondary ... whatever.  A tool is a tool.  It can be used for whatever someone wants to use it for.

[nate]

Sure it can.

 

There is an overwhelming need for people in our country and others to transport themselves using an automobile.

 

There is not an overwhelming reason why most people need guns.

[Spirit]

Then why do you own one?

[Thomas]

Being the only reasonably realistic check to the historically unprecedented power the American government wields would seem to be a reason. 

[nate]

Then why do you own one?

 

For home defense.  As I have said, I would gladly give it up for meaningful gun control.

 

Also I would have no problem submitting to yearly checks to ensure I still have it in my possession, mental health exams, etc.

[Spirit]

For home defense.  As I have said, I would gladly give it up for meaningful gun control.

 

Also I would have no problem submitting to yearly checks to ensure I still have it in my possession, mental health exams, etc.

 

 

And that sounds like a great reason to have one!  I dare say, an overwhelming reason to need a gun.

 

And I don't think any meaningful gun control law would change the circumstances of where you live, the police response times and your need to continue to defend your home and your family.  You shouldn't give it up even if more meaningful laws were past.

 

I would love to see the costs involved with having all American gun owners submitting to yearly checks and mental health exams.  Yikes!

[Angelsjunky]

But does a company have the right to make massive profits selling a drug as addicting as heroin? Ever met a smoker who gets all their butts in an ashtray? The tobacco industry is killing people, making huge profits, and left unresponsible for the damage done to the environment by cigarette butts. 

 

Alcohol can be brewed by anyone. It's one of those things humanity instinctively knows how to do. Nobody would be able to or bother to grow tobacco. I think it's worth a shot. If black market becomes a problem we can reevaluate. But I think it's worth a shot. 

 

This isn't about smokers or smoking being evil. Its the company themselves that shouldn't have the right to sell an addicting and lethal drug, the same reasons a drug dealer isn't allowed to sell heroin/crack. Again lobbyists. The "solution" is taxes that actually go directly to the tobacco companies. 

 

Colt, understand that I think ALL drugs should be legalized, that the so-called "war on drugs" has done far more harm than good. So yes, a company has the right to make profits off selling drugs as addicting as heroin, although this doesn't mean there shouldn't be oversight and regulation. But I'd rather spend money on education and improving quality of life so that people will feel less inclined to go towards harmful addiction.

 

As far as the legality of selling harmful substances, where do we draw the line? White sugar and high fructose corn syrup are addictive and harmful, yet they're in almost everything.

[nate]

And that sounds like a great reason to have one!  I dare say, an overwhelming reason to need a gun.

 

And I don't think any meaningful gun control law would change the circumstances of where you live, the police response times and your need to continue to defend your home and your family.  You shouldn't give it up even if more meaningful laws were past.

 

I would love to see the costs involved with having all American gun owners submitting to yearly checks and mental health exams.  Yikes!

 

It has been proven that owning a gun for self defense, especially a handgun is not effective.

 

I own a shotgun because I live in a fairly rural area.

 

And yeah it would be expensive and gun owners should pay for it.  I would say since the murder rate in our country is so much higher than any other first world country, we have a lot of problem and should do something about it.

 

One thing that really gets me about this country and why we have fallen behind so many European countries as leaders in this world, is how our people and legislators refuse to pay attention to what is working in Europe.  We hold onto our archaic ways.

[Angelsjunky]

nate, you sound like Bernie Sanders! Commie.

[Crampknees]

One thing that really gets me about this country and why we have fallen behind so many European countries as leaders in this world, is how our people and legislators refuse to pay attention to what is working in Europe.  We hold onto our archaic ways.

====================================================

 

I read that is the topic of the next Michael Moore movie.  I am not pimping him and a member of his fan club but just something I read. Instead of going after a Bush or someone it is based on how things work for other countries and why we are so F'd up. 

[nate]

AJ is agreeing with me and you are saying that I suggested something that is the topic of the next Michael Moore movie.

 

I am beginning to think that I am wrong.

[Spirit]

It has been proven that owning a gun for self defense, especially a handgun is not effective.

 

I own a shotgun because I live in a fairly rural area.

 

And yeah it would be expensive and gun owners should pay for it.  I would say since the murder rate in our country is so much higher than any other first world country, we have a lot of problem and should do something about it.

 

One thing that really gets me about this country and why we have fallen behind so many European countries as leaders in this world, is how our people and legislators refuse to pay attention to what is working in Europe.  We hold onto our archaic ways.

 

 

 

I'm all for improving our gun laws in some areas.  I'm all for better enforcement of the laws that are currently in place.  What I find odd why people are not as passionate about other things cause as many or more deaths as guns do.  Cars, alcohol, the combination, etc.  Any death/murder is tragic.  It always has been and it always will be.  It doesn't matter what tool is used to cause the death and/or commit the murder.  

[nate]

I have said before I am fine with tightening up alcohol and driving laws if it will save lives.

 

Keep in mind, many auto deaths are accidents.  They aren't acts of murder.

 

I do consider DUI deaths murder.

[Spirit]

 

 

I am beginning to think that I am wrong.

 

 

That's what I've been trying to tell you!

[juansavage1]

Sure it can.

 

There is an overwhelming need for people in our country and others to transport themselves using an automobile.

 

There is not an overwhelming reason why most people need guns.

People in the US use guns thousands of times a year to protect themselves from criminals. 

 

 

 

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]

* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]

* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]

 

 

[Spirit]

I have said before I am fine with tightening up alcohol and driving laws if it will save lives.

 

Keep in mind, many auto deaths are accidents.  They aren't acts of murder.

 

I do consider DUI deaths murder.

 

 

But you can put caveats on anything.  It doesn't change the fact that people are dead.  Many gun deaths are suicides, many gun deaths are gang related, etc.  People are still dead.

 

Many auto deaths are indeed accidents.  But there's so many of them!  So are they just inherently unsafe and should be outlawed?  Lives would be saved!  

 

I don't know if it would matter to me if one of my boys was killed by a gun or by a car.  My life would still be shattered.  

[Crampknees]

AJ is agreeing with me and you are saying that I suggested something that is the topic of the next Michael Moore movie.

 

I am beginning to think that I am wrong.

It is no secret here that I get confused at times and read things backwards.  I think I was a muleskinner in my last lifetime. 

[Blarg]

Are you saying Jesus was in the NRA, mt?

He was. The Nazarene Revolutionary Army.

[Glen]

But you can put caveats on anything. It doesn't change the fact that people are dead. Many gun deaths are suicides, many gun deaths are gang related, etc. People are still dead.

Many auto deaths are indeed accidents. But there's so many of them! So are they just inherently unsafe and should be outlawed? Lives would be saved!

I don't know if it would matter to me if one of my boys was killed by a gun or by a car. My life would still be shattered.

Using that example: if your child was killed by a car would you give up driving? And if your child was killed by a gun would you reconsider your position on guns?

[Thomas]

Using that example: if your child was killed by a car would you give up driving? And if your child was killed by a gun would you reconsider your position on guns?

 

My friend's  husband was killed by a DUI. She rarely if ever drives now.

[mtangelsfan]

Using that example: if your child was killed by a car would you give up driving? And if your child was killed by a gun would you reconsider your position on guns?

 

cousins of ours were involved in an accidental shooting death here in Montana.  They still own plenty of guns.