Academic Cheating

[Lou]

I got kicked out of high school twice.

the Public Masturbation thread is in the Men's Forum

[mp170.6]

The majority of university instructors have PhD's requiring intense research into highly specialized aspects of their chosen fields. I admire anybody who goes through the process of getting a PhD because it's incredibly rigorous, but they have zero educational background in pedagogy/instruction.  Ask any PhD who's a college professor, and they'll be the first to say they're not qualified to teach high school.  The same is true of a university instructor with an MA the vast majority of the time.  

 

Throw a PhD or MA with no high school teaching experience in with a bunch of 16 year old Juniors in any IB class who are just beginning to learn foundational academic skills, and watch what happens 99% of the time. 

 

Anyway, people who take the time to get PhD's aren't going to be high school teachers, so I guess they're stuck with us peons with our lowly degrees.

 

For the record, it's a ton more work to teach IB, and we get paid zero extra for it.  Most teachers want nothing to do with teaching IB.  Teachers with their lowly BA's (and a lot of us have MA's) who are knowledgeable and passionate about their subjects volunteer for it. 

 

I didn't mean it like that, cezero.

 

There's a huge difference between English and literature (which we use everyday) verses the advanced Math and Science which people might not use for decades.  That's why I don't think a BA/BS degree is enough to teach advanced math or science at the high school level.  In those cases, I think an M.S. degree should be mandatory, if for no other reason greater exposure to these advanced fields.

 

You're right about most Ph.D.'s being incapable of handling high schoolers.  Most can barely teach in a university classroom. 

[Hollyw00d]

I got kicked out of high school twice.

How

[halobob]

I was a bit of an asshole when I was a teenager.

 

I didn't go to class.  My GPA my Jr. year was like 1. 

You?  No, I would've never guessed.

[Hollyw00d]

I was a bit of an asshole when I was a teenager.

I didn't go to class. My GPA my Jr. year was like 1.

Well at least you picked the right time to be an asshole.

High school is probably the safest time to be an F up nowadays

I think we all were a bit of an asshole in some ways when we were a teenager

[OCAngelsNotLAA]

I was suspended from college for 1 semester for cheating on a test that I didn't cheat on.  It was for a computer information systems class that I had once a week.  It was a little more then halfway through the year, I had an 89% in the class when we took our 2nd to last test.  Half of the test was on the computer (Saving your work to a floppy disk to turn in) and the other half was on a scantron.  I finished the test, turned it in and left.  The following week, the professor was handing back our graded tests but he never gave me mine.  I went to talk to him to about it and he informed me that I didn't turn in the Floppy disc section of the test.  I questioned why I would turn in half a test and he couldn't answer me.  This is all happening in front of a classroom of 30+ students.  I suggest he lost it, and this is when he snapped.  Called me a "Punk liar" and asked me to leave the class.  I had never had any bad altercations with this professor previously so I was shocked at his demeanor.  I left class like he asked.  Later that week I emailed the professor and offered to take a make up exam or to double my next test grade to act as my score for the "test I lost".  He wouldn't compromise and gave me a zero on the exam.  This was unacceptable for me so I emailed the dean of that department and let him know of the situation.  He agreed with me and said that he would speak to the professor and tell him to give me a make up exam.  This whole process has taken a few weeks and it was time to take another test with this professor.  The professor and I are not talking, we are only talking through the dean who is acting like an arbitrator for us since the last test.  I take the next test and the professor has a check sheet for when you turn in your test he will cross off your name.  The professor  is standing in the isle between the desk accepting completed tests from students and then crossing off their names.  I walk up to him to give him my test and he wont take it from me.  He is grabbing students tests all around me but not taking mine and avoiding eye contact.  I am about to blow up on him,  The frustrations explode and I throw the test at him and tell him "you're being such a f%#king baby" and walk out of class.  That was the last test of the year and I still hadn't taken a make up test for the one he lost.  I email the dean to see when I can take the make up test.  He gets back to me and said the professor accused me of stealing another test and is charging me with Academic Dishonesty and that there was nothing he could do and the matter would be moved on to the department of judicial affairs.

 

I then met with the dean of judicial affairs thinking this would be an easy fix. I entered the meeting with slight arrogance since I knew I didn't cheat. Common sense would show that I was unlikely to steal the first test and I would have no motive to do it the second time for sure.  The dean couldn't have been more against me.  She didn't believe a word I said and just was trying to force me to sign a document stating that I did do what the professor accused me of.  I refused, asked her to call on students that were in the class so that she knew I didn't steal the 2nd test for sure, everyone should have seen me throw the test at him. After I left her office I contacted a family friend that was an attorney and explained the situation to him.  He gave me all this legal verbiage to strengthen my case and he expressed a lot of confidence that I would get off.  Even offered to attend my next meeting with the dean.  I informed the dean that I wanted to bring a lawyer to our next meeting and she said that was against policy bc this is a school policy matter not a legal one.  We met again said she talked to several students from the class and none of them could confirm my version of what happened, I gave her the contact info of  3 people I knew from class but she didn't contact any of them but also wouldn't tell me who she did talk to.  We are coming up on the end of the spring semester now and I am suppose to leave for a study abroad program in a month which I had already paid for.  She then tells me that if I don't sign a confession she will increase the suspension to an expulsion and I will not be able to transfer my college credits earned there to anywhere else since "all my grades could have been achieved through academic dishonesty! An expulsion will also not allow me to do the study abroad trip that summer and the money I paid ($4,500) will be lost since it was too late to get a refund. She also informs me that my chance of being accepted to any masters programs or law school would be greatly affected by this.   I almost breakdown  in front of her because I am so frustrated.  She then flips a switch and acts really nice to me.  She convinces me to sign the confession, take my 1 semester suspension and tells me to come see her when I am ready to apply for law school and she will give me a letter of recommendation to help smooth over the fact I have an academic dishonesty charge on my record.  I accept this and go.  Flash forward a year to my last year in undergrad.  I have started looking at law schools and arrange a meeting with the dean to get that letter of rec that she had mentioned.  She acts like I am crazy and says she never said such a thing.  I flip I file a grievance against her and against my charge.  It goes to an appeals committee which consists of 2 professors and 1 student.  Even that process makes no sense.  I have to submit my description of the events.  They then send this to the professor and the dean so they can rebuttal. The rebuttals are sent to the committee for review, I never get to read or dispute their rebuttals.  I receive a letter from the committee 2 months later and all it says is that my appeal was denied.  No explanation, again no one contacted the witnesses I had mentioned. I even contacted local news to see if they wanted to run with this story of on this.  No one was interested. This whole event really messed me up.  I got worked up just writing about it now 7 years later.  I am not trying to act like a saint.  I have cheated before, copied homework, made a cheat sheet, but I didn't cheat here and I paid for it like I did.  I could have handled my actions/emotions better but that still does not justify my punishment.  I wont be making any Alumni donations to CSUF anytime soon (that might also be bc I have no money...)

[Tank]

wow, that really blows. i'd bet if you dug deep enough you'd probably find some other students that were screwed over by the same professor and dean. it's doubtful you were the first.

 

did you ever get into law school inspite of this?

[mp170.6]

The 2 teachers who got it both had less than 5 years of teaching experience, and had bachelor's degrees.  The other 3 who applied all had masters degrees, and they're all very good teachers, but WSU clearly put whether they had an MS or BS at the very bottom of the hiring criteria.

 

English and literature are muscles that are frequently exercised in everyday life.  Advanced math and sciences are not.  The only people who "stay in shape" with math and science are the Ph.D.'s which we both agree are not well equipped to teach high school.  The middle ground would be someone with an M.S. degree in Math or the Sciences that is focused on teaching grades 9-12...or something along those lines, you know what I mean.  I believe many universities offer these kinds of specialties. 

 

I had a math teacher in high school who admitted she only had 3 semesters of calculus in college and bombed the final one.  That's just one example of high school math instruction being a dismal failure in this country.  The community college nearest me offers about 100 remedial math classes, so figure approx. 4000 students every semester.  The lowest level they teach is about 5th or 6th grade math and covers fractions and percentages.  No joke. 

 

Even Cal State Fullerton, a university, offers remedial math.  I'm not sure if that's more sad or more embarrassing?

.

[mrwicked]

some of the STEM teachers at my HS were folks with upper degrees who worked in industry for years, and for whatever reason decided to switch to being a teacher.

one of my CS teachers worked at Rockwell on the B-1B bomber and the AC-130U before becoming a teacher.

another dude in robotics spent time at Northrup Grumman's B2 Division and bunch of years at TRW.

they were great.

[mp170.6]

some of the STEM teachers at my HS were folks with upper degrees who worked in industry for years, and for whatever reason decided to switch to being a teacher.

one of my CS teachers worked at Rockwell on the B-1B bomber and the AC-130U before becoming a teacher.

another dude in robotics spent time at Northrup Grumman's B2 Division and bunch of years at TRW.

they were great.

 

They probably got laid off and needed a second career. 

 

Experience like that is wonderful to have as a teacher. 

[mp170.6]

You keep saying that as though it's a self-evident truth.

It isn't. 

 

A PhD is not going to automatically be better at teaching 100 and 200 level math and science classes than somebody with a BS in education for those fields, which is what we're talking about for IB and AP high school classes with 16 and 17 year olds.

 

Exactly no education professional at any level would disregard an excellent teacher's ability to teach those classes based on their having a BS instead of an MS or PhD. 

 

I agree with you that Ph.D.'s teaching just about anything is cause for concern, especially high school level. 

 

On the other hand, if I understand you correctly, a person with only a BA/BS degree teaching 100 or 200 level college courses is not enough education unless we're talking about basket weaving or auto shop.

[mp170.6]

Yes, there are a lot of shitty and unqualified high school teachers.  And not just in match and science, though they get the most press for sure. 

 

Conflating that fact with your reductive argument about an MS or PhD being required to be an effective math or science IB/AP teacher in high school is truly silly.

 

I think we're talking about different things.  The ability to teach well doesn't necessarily correlate to education level, IMHO.  I've learned many things from high school dropouts in my lifetime, including people like my long gone grandparents who never advanced past the 8th grade. 

 

I was talking about knowledge level and amount of exposure to a particular subject.  What sucks about teacher credentialing in many states is they give teachers blanket license to teach many different subjects, some of which the teacher is uncomfortable with and knows very little about. 

[m0nkey]

I have an MS and I honestly don't know shit

[Tank]

some of the STEM teachers at my HS were folks with upper degrees who worked in industry for years, and for whatever reason decided to switch to being a teacher.

one of my CS teachers worked at Rockwell on the B-1B bomber and the AC-130U before becoming a teacher.

another dude in robotics spent time at Northrup Grumman's B2 Division and bunch of years at TRW.

they were great.

Off topic- my neighbor was responsible for the guidance system on the mx missile.

[CaliAngel]

I wont be making any Alumni donations to CSUF anytime soon...

 

BA in Business Administration, concentration in Finance from CSUF. I got a piece of paper that says I have a degree which allows me to apply for jobs, but I wouldn't recommend the school to anyone. Besides maybe 3 or 4 professors there, the accreditation they have and the staff which includes professors, deans, department and administration workers at that school was a complete joke as far as I'm concerned.

 

Unless that's how it is at most colleges, and I just went in expecting much more.

 

After graduating though, it was tough. Thank god I was so persistent I learned through research and over the course of 10+ interviews how to say what employers wanted to hear. Not to mention I ended up paying $200 for an online company to write a resume for me, because up until then I wasn't getting any bites with the resume the Cal State system allegedly thought would work.

 

Probably the best $200 I ever spent, as I now make that in half a days work. I'm not saying going to school and getting the degree wasn't worth it, I'm just saying I wasn't really satisfied with the college experience I had.

[Adam]

You should have smoked for drugs

[timmy351]

BA in Business Administration, concentration in Finance from CSUF. I got a piece of paper that says I have a degree which allows me to apply for jobs, but I wouldn't recommend the school to anyone. Besides maybe 3 or 4 professors there, the accreditation they have and the staff which includes professors, deans, department and administration workers at that school was a complete joke as far as I'm concerned.

Unless that's how it is at most colleges, and I just went in expecting much more.

After graduating though, it was tough. Thank god I was so persistent I learned through research and over the course of 10+ interviews how to say what employers wanted to hear. Not to mention I ended up paying $200 for an online company to write a resume for me, because up until then I wasn't getting any bites with the resume the Cal State system allegedly thought would work.

Probably the best $200 I ever spent, as I now make that in half a days work. I'm not saying going to school and getting the degree wasn't worth it, I'm just saying I wasn't really satisfied with the college experience I had.

Transferred to CSUF this semester and so far it's been great. Hearing these stories makes me a little uncomfortable. Edited December 3, 2015 by timmy351

[Lou]

Transferred to CSUF this semester and so far it's been great. Hearing these stories makes me a little uncomfortable.

Nothing to worry about,timmy. If you have any problems you can turn to the Titans' most esteemed alum - Jose Mota

Plus, if you flunk out you can always go to southern cal. You do enjoy the ghetto, don't you?

[aznhockeyguy]

Wow very surprised at the number of teachers in this forum.  I too attended CSUF, BA degree with a concentration in Accounting.  I also have my CPA and can sign off on audits.  I'm leaving the industry to become a math teacher and am half way done with my credential.  The reason I'm leaving the corporate world is because the corporate world sucks.  Long story short, I made some really bad decisions regarding my career and have numerous gaps, I worked with numerous recruiters giving me conflicting advice on everything for my job search.  I've had a lot of temp jobs with no benefits that is below my ability level.  Frankly, I got sick and tired of employers paying less and less for more and more.

 

My high school had the IB program but I did not do it, but had friends who did.  It was very very tough.  I was told that a lot of colleges don't accept AP/IB credit to skip classes.  CSUF accepted my AP tests that allowed me to receive credit/skip classes.  Although I agree with CaliAngel's sentiment regarding CSUF, I would also say that college is what you put into it.  If you work hard and strive for good grades and challenge yourself then you'll get more out of college. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by aznhockeyguy

[Adam]

Transferred to CSUF this semester and so far it's been great. Hearing these stories makes me a little uncomfortable.

 

You should probably read all of his other posts before you assess your feelings. 

[Guest]

the Public Masturbation thread is in the Men's Forum

Link?

[mrwicked]

i spent a lot of time on CSUF campus, did math courses there in HS.

and my HS offered a bowling class, so we would go over to CSUF campus and just f*ck around in that little bowling alley/arcade under the student union.

we would get beer at the pub and return to normal classes nice and tipsy.

Edited December 3, 2015 by mrwicked

[mp170.6]

i spent a lot of time on CSUF campus, did math courses there in HS.

and my HS offered a bowling class, so we would go over to CSUF campus and just f*ck around in that little bowling alley/arcade under the student union.

we would get beer at the pub and return to normal classes nice and tipsy.

 

You went to Troy High School?

[mp170.6]

Wow very surprised at the number of teachers in this forum.  I too attended CSUF, BA degree with a concentration in Accounting.  I also have my CPA and can sign off on audits.  I'm leaving the industry to become a math teacher and am half way done with my credential.  The reason I'm leaving the corporate world is because the corporate world sucks.  Long story short, I made some really bad decisions regarding my career and have numerous gaps, I worked with numerous recruiters giving me conflicting advice on everything for my job search.  I've had a lot of temp jobs with no benefits that is below my ability level.  Frankly, I got sick and tired of employers paying less and less for more and more.

 

My high school had the IB program but I did not do it, but had friends who did.  It was very very tough.  I was told that a lot of colleges don't accept AP/IB credit to skip classes.  CSUF accepted my AP tests that allowed me to receive credit/skip classes.  Although I agree with CaliAngel's sentiment regarding CSUF, I would also say that college is what you put into it.  If you work hard and strive for good grades and challenge yourself then you'll get more out of college. 

 

Can I make a suggestion?  Push hard to teach some sort of Personal Finance 101 for high school seniors.  Someone like you would be a wonderful asset (no pun intended) to teach classes like that. 

 

Good luck in your career transition!

[Adam]

I have an MS and I honestly don't know shit

 

This is true