David Freese

[Lou]

Batting .304 since June 1

who'd a thunk it?

[Michifan]

Great to see him contributing. 

[Angelsfirst]

I still like that trade. Offensively Freese>>>>>>>Bourjos

[Angel_In_Germany]

There was an article on Fangraphs saying David Freese has the highest line drive rate of any player in the majors and that line drives have a .656 BABIP on average this year.  He's had a .304 average *and* he's been somewhat unlucky . . . 

[DMVol]

I didn't like the trade but I hope he proves me wrong....needs to stay healthy....

[Inside Pitch]

There was an article on Fangraphs saying David Freese has the highest line drive rate of any player in the majors and that line drives have a .656 BABIP on average this year.  He's had a .304 average *and* he's been somewhat unlucky . . . 

 

His BABIP had been completely out of whack compared to his career norm all year until recently.  This is how weird of a hitter Freese has been over the years.... his career BABIP of .346 is higher than that of Ichiro Suzuki's .344.   The AL average slash lines for 3B are only .250/312/.399..   Freese's .245/317.312, batting line is getting pretty close, hopefully it keeps inching north.

[Angelsjunky]

Peter Bourjos update: .202/.268/.307 in 62 games, 180 PA. Now Peter's main strength is his defense but that's just terrible.

 

Randal Grichuk might be the bigger loss long-term.

[Inside Pitch]

Peter Bourjos update: .202/.268/.307 in 62 games, 180 PA. Now Peter's main strength is his defense but that's just terrible.

 

Randal Grichuk might be the bigger loss long-term.

 

Grichuk was always the problem with that trade and even his value to the Angels was more as a trade chip than actual performance (IMO).

Edited July 4, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

Salas has provided enough that Grichuck's potential value and Boujos current value makes the trade either even or slanted towards the Angels. Currently Grichuk's slash line in the minors is not remarkable and his OBP is still in the .320 range. He may never really translate into more than a 4th outfielder.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Eric Notti

[Stradling]

Yea I don't really agree Blarg. Granted Grichuk wouldn't have played here but he could have been a nice piece to get us another arm for the pen, someone better than Salas.

[Blarg]

He was the Angels 5th top prospect on one of the worst ranked minor leagues and never scratched a 150 top prospect rankings in his entire career. We got what he was worth, in fact I think we may have gotten better. Salas leading up to his DL stint had given up only 1 run in his last 5 apeareances.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Eric Notti

[Inside Pitch]

Salas has provided enough that Grichuck's potential value and Boujos current value makes the trade either even or slanted towards the Angels. Currently Grichuk's slash line in the minors is not remarkable and his OBP is still in the .320 range. He may never really translate into more than a 4th outfielder.

 

We just aren't going to agree on this -- not so much on what he could be but rather how his others may view his value..  IMO Grichuk would be more valuable to us as a trade chip than any position player currently in the minors save for possibly Rondon, particularly to a team like SD that has a 2B signed long term and a weak OF.   His OBP is an issue, but he's got a good enough glove to play CF and he has legit power.  Dude is 4.7 years below the league average age in AAA and currently sporting a SLG% north of .500 in one of the few pitcher's parks in the PCL.  If CJ Cron could play CF would he have value?  Because they are almost statistical clones in the minors only Grichuk is two years younger and always played in leagues well below the league optimal age.

 

Salas 1.317 WHIP is the highest in the pen other than Cory Rasmus.   He's a waiver wire candidate on a team with a solid pen.

[EDinTUSTIN]

He's playing much better. I have to say that he has been doing well defensively.

[Blarg]

We just aren't going to agree on this -- not so much on what he could be but rather how his others may view his value..  IMO Grichuk would be more valuable to us as a trade chip than any position player currently in the minors save for possibly Rondon, particularly to a team like SD that has a 2B signed long term and a weak OF.   His OBP is an issue, but he's got a good enough glove to play CF and he has legit power.  Dude is 4.7 years below the league average age in AAA and currently sporting a SLG% north of .500 in one of the few pitcher's parks in the PCL.  If CJ Cron could play CF would he have value?  Because they are almost statistical clones in the minors only Grichuk is two years younger and always played in leagues well below the league optimal age.

 

Salas 1.317 WHIP is the highest in the pen other than Cory Rasmus.   He's a waiver wire candidate on a team with a solid pen.

 

Grichuk is 22 . If that is 4.7 years below league average it means there are too many MLB washouts (Ian Stewart) trying to revive their career there. He signed as a high school kid at 17 so his progression is really on track with his age if he is to move on to the majors and make a mark. Even if his home park is a pitchers park he gets to play half his games in places like Salt Lake. CJ Cron is not part of this argument.

 

Salas had a bad start this season and everyone soured on him quickly. A 1.317 WHIP is not a waiver candidate out of the pen considering how few innings of work he has had to lower that number. For the laughs, Verlander's WHIP is 1.49. I hope the Angels can pick him up from the waiver wire.

 

Just joking but taking limited innings, a poor start and saying the guy is trash is as silly as last night in the gameday thread people screaming for Scioscia to pull Shoemaker in the third because he was toast, giving up 2 runs. It is a long game, a long season and April/May is not all of the compiled information needed to decide a players fate just like 3 innings where if you extrapolate two runs as total ERA it comes to 6. To quote YoT, it's a false stat.

[Troll Daddy]

Is it safe to say that Freese is a much better option than Green at third base and Mike is right by playing him ?

Edited July 4, 2014 by Troll Daddy

[Stradling]

TD, the jury is still out on that. I do think Mike is right playing Howie over Greene though.

[Inside Pitch]

He was the Angels 5th top prospect on one of the worst ranked minor leagues and never scratched a 150 top prospect rankings in his entire career. We got what he was worth, in fact I think we may have gotten better. Salas leading up to his DL stint had given up only 1 run in his last 5 apeareances.

 

Well, based on prospect rankings, CJ Cron, Mike Morin, and Matt Shoemaker shouldn't be as useful as they have been.   I respect the work BBA and others put into those lists, but they tend to favor certain criteria (tools and to a degree OBP) while at the same time not putting enough weight into how parks influence numbers.   

 

I'm not saying this in defense of Grichuk, I think the concerns about his OBP were enough to warrant keeping him off those prospect lists..  I just think those lists are a bit skewed.

[Inside Pitch]

Grichuk is 22 . If that is 4.7 years below league average it means there are too many MLB washouts (Ian Stewart) trying to revive their career there. He signed as a high school kid at 17 so his progression is really on track with his age if he is to move on to the majors and make a mark. Even if his home park is a pitchers park he gets to play half his games in places like Salt Lake. CJ Cron is not part of this argument.

 

Salas had a bad start this season and everyone soured on him quickly. A 1.317 WHIP is not a waiver candidate out of the pen considering how few innings of work he has had to lower that number. For the laughs, Verlander's WHIP is 1.49. I hope the Angels can pick him up from the waiver wire.

 

Just joking but taking limited innings, a poor start and saying the guy is trash is as silly as last night in the gameday thread people screaming for Scioscia to pull Shoemaker in the third because he was toast, giving up 2 runs. It is a long game, a long season and April/May is not all of the compiled information needed to decide a players fate just like 3 innings where if you extrapolate two runs as total ERA it comes to 6. To quote YoT, it's a false stat.

 

You keep trying to discredit what he's doing -- I really don't get why, it's possible I'm just reading you wrong because that's not typical for you.  I don't think it's a case of you just disliking the kid. 

 

Anyway he's 2 years below what is considered the league optimal age for a AAA prospect -- older guys and MLB washouts are always a part of the equation, ditto AAAA types, but his being 22 in an age 24 optimal league and putting up a .850 OPS while being a plus defender elevates his status.   I know you know this, but age has always been used as a barometer of experience, the belief being that college players are seeing similarly advanced competition in college as would a HS kid in the lower minors and everyone is similarly experienced by the time they reach AA.  Knowing that, the time he's lost to injury in low A has to be taken into consideration... he's a bit raw still.  Grichuk is a bit of a raw fish, he could easily flame out, but there are things in his statistical profile and the sort that leads me to believe saber inclined franchises are more intrigued with him than they typically would be.  STL obviously was.

 

You say Cron isn't a part of this argument...  Why?  Cron has a similar hitter profile (statistically), to Grichuk despite having always been older.  If the discussion is about possible value then Cron and every other hitter in the minors that can't play a passable CF is in the discussion save for SS's and catchers.   BTW, you bringing Justin Verlander into the discussion after saying Cron isn't a part of it is funny and I'm not being snarky, I actually laughed..  Not as funny as comparing a RP to a SP and trying to connect the stats but still very very funny (okay that time i was being snarky but it's meant in a good natured way you dick).  I know you only brought him up for the purposes of levity but I can't help but make that unintended connection.  

 

Just to be clear....  I've never predicted stardom for Grichuk even as I pretty much went on record as saying all the typical statistical predictors screamed out breakout for this year.  I said when the deal went down that he had more value to us this year as a trade chip than he likely would as an actual player, I think as the season has gone on that's been proven to be true.  That's all I'm saying here.  People who think I may be lamenting losing the player aren't reading me right.  I think there is a legit reason to believe he will bust, and I didn't see him being a part of this team this year, but that doesn't mean I don't believe it's not a lost opportunity.  To that end, I don't think you would argue a selling team would assert the same value to Salas as they would Grichuk -- and that's been the crux of my entire argument. 

 

As an aside, Grichuk and D-Mac are two guys who I think have been unfairly lumped in with some busts and bad prospects by Angels fans..   It still bugs me when people take shots at D-Mac... 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[stormngt]

180 plate appearances. You can't accurately measure a players offensive ability when he being played part time. PB even showed with the Angels he needs consistent at bats to perform offensively. He hasn't had that I St louis. Can't blue them Jay is very good offrnsively.

Peter Bourjos update: .202/.268/.307 in 62 games, 180 PA. Now Peter's main strength is his defense but that's just terrible.

Randal Grichuk might be the bigger loss long-term.

[stormngt]

For the record. I am ambivalent on the trade. I still wish we got more for PB. However at this stage it Peers the Angels got the better of the trade. However a lot can change. Just a month ago most would have celebrated if Freeze was DFA.

[Blarg]

IP, I am not discrediting what Grichuk is doing, I am just not over valuing it. Most impact MLB players are not in AAA at 24, they are in their 2nd season  on the parent club.If he makes it to the majors he has to beat out teammate Oscar Tavares that has a better OPS and a .370 OBP. The difference is Tavares has been doing this his entire minor league career .320/.376/.516/.892 and is the same age.

[tomsred]

Just a couple of other oddities in the David Freese splits:  He's hitting .305 for the year against lefties, and .224 for the year against right handers.  His batting average in an 0-0 count for the year is .458, when 0-1 it's .524.  He is also picking up the pace lately, hitting .384 in his last 39 AB's.

Edited July 4, 2014 by tomsred

[DMVol]

If Grichuk was a so so prospect, kind of makes you wonder how we're going to pick up a Street or similar player at the deadline with what we have in the system....maybe need to trade a big league guy....Green, maybe Conger, maybe even Kendrick if you like Green...a team like the Pads might flip Kendrick for prospects....

[Lou]

180 plate appearances. You can't accurately measure a players offensive ability when he being played part time. PB even showed with the Angels he needs consistent at bats to perform offensively. He hasn't had that I St louis. Can't blue them Jay is very good offrnsively.

He was handed a starting position in St Louis. Want to know why he isn't getting consistent playing time?

Because he couldn't hit. Stop blaming others for Petey not getting playing time. This is all on him.

[ukyah]

IP, I am not discrediting what Grichuk is doing, I am just not over valuing it. Most impact MLB players are not in AAA at 24, they are in their 2nd season  on the parent club.If he makes it to the majors he has to beat out teammate Oscar Tavares that has a better OPS and a .370 OBP. The difference is Tavares has been doing this his entire minor league career .320/.376/.516/.892 and is the same age.

 

 

i'm not really involved in this conversation, but most impact mlb players start at 22? to be considered an impact mlb'er you have to be better than the organization's number one overall prospect and an mlb top 3 prospect? that seems both inaccurate and an impossibly high standard.

 

i don't know what the average age for a guy's first year is, but i'd believe 22 has to be below the average. i could see maybe a cup of coffee. the word "impact" is highly subjective also. who is an impact player? is it only all stars?