Trade packages for Trout that would actually tempt you

[Troll Daddy]

I'm sure he had a better defensive year, no doubt in my mind.

Who Trout?

Jones had a better fielding percentage. Will we ever know how many extra bases Trout as cost us with his arm?

[Troll Daddy]

Apparently an .811 OPS is "as productive" as a .988 OPS.

Scoreboard only shows runs scored at the end of the game. I foresee a new scoreboard that will show a total WAR of the game.

[tdawg87]

Scoreboard only shows runs scored at the end of the game. I foresee a new scoreboard that will show a total WAR of the game.

 

And Trout still scored more runs than Jones.

 

*this is where you bring up RBI's and everyone laughs at you*

[Stradling]

Who Trout?

Jones had a better fielding percentage. Will we ever know how many extra bases Trout as cost us with his arm?

No Trout had a poor defensive year last year.

[Troll Daddy]

And Trout still scored more runs than Jones.

*this is where you bring up RBI's and everyone laughs at you*

Which was a grand total of 9 runs.

That's why they usually mob the runner at the end of the game and not the batter.

[Brent Maguire]

I'm not a big fan of WAR ... maybe someday I'll get it.

Adams Jones CF for the Orioles ended the season with a 4.2 WAR. I could argue he had a better defensive year than Trout (11 OF assist). He was also as productive at the plate with 100 run & 108 RBI's. So Trout is 6 Wins better than Jones?

Well Trout was way beyond a better hitter, he was the 5th best baserunner in baseball and his defense was actually better than Jones. Jones has rated as a below average defender for years now. Trout, even in a so called bad year, was a better defender.

So to answer your question, yes he was 6 wins better.

[tdawg87]

Which was a grand total of 9 runs.

That's why they usually mob the runner at the end of the game and not the batter.

 

lol

 

And Jones had a grand total of 11 more RBI's.

 

Wait why am I arguing with you

[Troll Daddy]

I'm not knocking Trout ... just WAR. It's hard to believe that Trout was 6 Wins better than Jones.

This is just a discussion ... No need for anyone to get combative.

[Troll Daddy]

Trout is a great defender but I'd take Jones over him just for his arm alone. It doesn't hurt that Jones is a gold glover.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Troll Daddy

[Brent Maguire]

I'm not knocking Trout ... just WAR. It's hard to believe that Trout was 6 Wins better than Jones.

This is just a discussion ... No need for anyone to get combative.

Nobody is getting combative.

Trout really is that much better than Jones. Jones is a perfectly good player but he's a below average defender, doesn't take walks and isn't a great baserunner.

Trout does just about everything at a great level. A player with no flaws and ability to do everything well will make you that much better than everyone else.

[Troll Daddy]

Nobody is saying that Jones is a better player. I was using Jones as a example. According to saber metrics Trout was more than twice better than Jones.

When it came to actual results on the field it was close to a wash in my eyes.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Troll Daddy

[tdawg87]

When it came to actual results on the field it was close to a wash in my eyes.

 

lol jesus christ

[Stradling]

Troll Daddy living up to his name. "Oh, this isn't about Mike Trout it's about WAR, now listen to me talk about how Adam Jones is as good as Trout."

[jshep]

Trout is a great defender but I'd take Jones over him just for his arm alone. It doesn't hurt that Jones is a gold glover.

 

So is Vernon Wells.

 

(argument for Vernon Wells being a better defender than Trout in 3..2..1..)

Edited December 29, 2013 by jshep

[Stradling]

Gold Gloves might be the MOST subjective award in baseball, just ask Rafael Palmero.

[Troll Daddy]

Troll Daddy living up to his name. "Oh, this isn't about Mike Trout it's about WAR, now listen to me talk about how Adam Jones is as good as Trout."

Stradling you look like a young guy ... I'm just a old fashion fan who's used to looking at the box scores and results of the game.

Nothing better that a great catch, a outfield assist, HR, RBI's, stolen base, and a good old fashion run scored.

[Stradling]

Yes, and all of those things you mentioned, other than an outfield assist, Trout gives you. He gives you all of those things better than any other player in the game and it isn't even close. Oh and I am pretty sure I am a few years older than you.

[Troll Daddy]

So is Vernon Wells.

(argument for Vernon Wells being a better defender than Trout in 3..2..1..)

Adam Jones is 28 years old.

3X GG

2013 Silver Slugger Award

100 runs

108 RBI's

11 assist

Nice comparison ... carry on

[Troll Daddy]

Yes, and all of those things you mentioned, other than an outfield assist, Trout gives you. He gives you all of those things better than any other player in the game and it isn't even close. Oh and I am pretty sure I am a few years older than you.

I thought I mentioned that Trout is a much better player ... sorry if you miss understood.

Well you look young for your age.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Troll Daddy

[YouthofToday]

Fielding Bible Awards are far more qualitative when it comes to defensive recognition than Gold Glove award winners. Even with recent improvements to how they are awarded they are still absurd.

Adam jones doesn't have great range. Trout simply converts more fly balls into outs thanks to his better range.

[jshep]

I'm beginning to wonder if Troll Daddy just got hired as Adam Jones's agent.

[Brent Maguire]

Nobody is saying that Jones is a better player. I was using Jones as a example. According to saber metrics Trout was more than twice better than Jones.

When it came to actual results on the field it was close to a wash in my eyes.

Yet none of the stats say Jones was close to Trout. You can use any stat outside of RBI's, which are useless in evaluation players, and Trout was better. 

 

If you want to use a stat that compares him to other players, wRC+ works. It shows how a hitter is compared to the league average. Jones had a 118 wRC+, which meant he was 18% better than the league average hitter, putting him 51st tied with players like James Loney and Jonathan Lucroy. Do you consider those 2 guys to be great hitters? 

 

Trout, meanwhile, had a 176 wRC+, 76% better than league average and only 2nd to Miguel Cabrera. 

 

BSR measures how good a baserunner is. Jones is actually a lot better than I thought he was. He had 6.2 BSR, which was 9th in the league. But Trout had 8.1 BSR, which was better than Jones. 

 

Defensively, Trout was middle of the pack among center fielders, while Jones was 3rd worst among qualifiers, with a -7.9 UZR. 

 

If you want to use more traditional stats, Trout was 3rd in OBP, 4th in SLG, 4th in AVG, 2nd in BB, 2nd in R, 17th in RBI(As a leadoff hitter), and 10th in SB. 

 

Jones was 101st in OBP, 43rd in AVG, 22nd in SLG, 133rd(!) in BB, 9th in R, 6th in RBI, and 36th in SB. 

 

Jones had more outfield assists but that's only a small part of defense. Trout takes better jumps, has better range and is much quicker than Jones. So Jones has a better arm and.... drives in more runs? He's a middle of the order hitter in a very good lineup so that's expected. 

 

Otherwise, Trout is vastly superior and they aren't close at all if you're comparing them. 

[Brent Maguire]

Adam Jones is 28 years old.

3X GG

2013 Silver Slugger Award

100 runs

108 RBI's

11 assist

Nice comparison ... carry on

Vernon Wells age 28 season: .303/.357/.502 32 HR 5.7 WAR

Adam Jones age 28 season: .285/.318/.493 33 HR 4.2 WAR 

[Troll Daddy]

Fielding Bible Awards are far more qualitative when it comes to defensive recognition than Gold Glove award winners. Even with recent improvements to how they are awarded they are still absurd.

Adam jones doesn't have great range. Trout simply converts more fly balls into outs thanks to his better range.

That may or may not be true about his range ... Jones has plenty of speed. I'm more concerned with Trout's arm. His had no outfield assist and runners know they can take a extra base if it's close.

[tdawg87]

Typical Troll Daddy. Finds the one flaw in Mike Trout's game and blows it so far out of proportion that he is actually comparing Adam Jones to him.

 

Johnny Damon had 10 outfield assists in 1998. His arm was easily as bad as Trout's.