The Official Los Angeles Angels 2023-2024 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Again, it's Bowden, so we should probably expect the Astros to announce the signing of Montgomery within the next couple hours or so.

I know he is full of it at times but he does talk to front office folks.  He is less about throwing bad info out there than just being a windbag...On MLB Radio, I like Jim Duquette better but together, on Sunday mornings, they are the best show on the channel.  Steve Phillips doesn't bring much to the table and a lot of the former players are pretty worthless.  At least Duquette and Bowden talk to front office people who actually make decisions. 

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Snell is a trip.  If he simply ate more innings teams would be lining up to sign him.  Incredibly talented guy, just hard to project based on past injury history

I understand your point but the reality is 5 2/3 innings of a Snell start puts a team in a better position to win than about 90% of what other starters would give you.

Nobody averaged 7 innings per start.  Alcantara was tops at 6 2/3.  Almost every of else was right around where Snell was.

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

But it’s an issue of scarcity now.  What do they need more, a starter or another bat?  I would say a starter.

I've been arguing in favor of creating greater depth across the board all winter, those 2 WAR types.  I'd argue there are fewer 2 WAR capable bats than there are pitchers currently available, but I'm not opposed to adding either.

Mostly I think taking from one area to try to bolster another is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  

 

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Ok maybe back to Texas? St. Louis maybe?

One of those two or Boston for Montgomery.  Just not sure anybody else is going to jump in and blow up the market at this point, particularly if he really wants to go where he has a comfort level or family ties (Boston).  Short term deal like Chapman and Snell. 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I've been arguing in favor of creating greater depth across the board all winter, those 2 WAR types.  I'd argue there are fewer 2 WAR capable bats than there are pitchers currently available, but I'm not opposed to adding either.

Mostly I think taking from one area to try to bolster another is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  

 

Well there is something to be said for rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.  Might as well make the BEST of your situation and get as comfortable as you can if the final outcome is inevitable.

 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand your point but the reality is 5 2/3 innings of a Snell start puts a team in a better position to win than about 90% of what other starters would give you.

Nobody averaged 7 innings per start.  Alcantara was tops at 6 2/3.  Almost every of else was right around where Snell was.

It's a perception thing with Snell, his pitch counts get him into trouble.  It's possible it's being overstated but the reality is his lack of innings was/is constantly being brought up.

And people can talk about how pitchers don't go as deep in games as they did in the past and how the game is evolving, I'd make that argument too.  But the reality is the guys that make that sort of money tend to go deeper into games.

The one thing all teams do a better job of these days is gauging value.  It's possible that if the average performance of all 5-6 inning pitcher improves then their salaries come down when compared to the guys that go 6+ for the same reason you brought up in your other post, scarcity.

 

[Inside Pitch]

Watch the TV BS get settled and teams go back to spending crazy money.  Imo that may have been the biggest factor into this off-season's spending or lack thereof across MLB.

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Do we think the Angels had some incredible run prior to Arte?  I mean I love this team, but it wasn’t like they were a contender year in and year out, until Arte owned them. 

Bill Stoneman would have made Jackie look good.  

[Dtwncbad]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's a perception thing with Snell, his pitch counts get him into trouble.  It's possible it's being overstated but the reality is his lack of innings was/is constantly being brought up.

And people can talk about how pitchers don't go as deep in games as they did in the past and how the game is evolving, I'd make that argument too.  But the reality is the guys that make that sort of money tend to go deeper into games.

The one thing all teams do a better job of these days is gauging value.  It's possible that if the average performance of all 5-6 inning pitcher improves then their salaries come down when compared to the guys that go 6+ for the same reason you brought up in your other post, scarcity.

 

I am not trying to be argumentative, just chatting.  Just saying I think most fans imagine what is normal based on what used to be normal.

If Snell got one more out per start he averages 6 innings.  The list of starters that actually average 6 innings is way smaller than people think.  I want to say it was like 13 guys did it last year?  I would have to look it up again maybe I am wrong.

I feel like tons of fans think that “normal” starters average over 6 innings and it just sort of isn’t true anymore.

Edited March 19 by Dtwncbad

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

56 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Again, it's Bowden, so we should probably expect the Astros to announce the signing of Montgomery within the next couple hours or so.

Waiting for Heyman, I mean Boras, I mean Heyman to come out and announce what's next!

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

32 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Bill Stoneman would have made Jackie look good.  

I miss Bill Stoneman. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am not trying to be argumentative.  Just saying I think most fans imagine what is normal based on what used to be normal.

If Snell got one more out per start he averages 6 innings.  The list of starters that actually average 6 innings is way smaller than people think.  I want to say it was like 13 guys did it last year?  I would have to look it up again maybe I am wrong.

I feel like tons of fans think that “normal” starters average over 6 innings and it just sort of isn’t true anymore.

You're preaching to the choir, so I'm not seeing anything as argumentative. 

My point in it's simplest form is that regardless of what he did last year, Snell's history is hurting how he's perceived, not just among fans but with MLB front offices. He managed only 413.2 innings combined from 2019-2022. There is no way around the reality that he made 85 starts during that span resulting in an average start length of 4.86 innings.  I'm willing to bet if he simply managed better than 5.5 innings over that span the perception would be altogether different.

Thats what's hurting him IMO or rather, that's what's created the perception of what he is and isn't.  Like I said in a different post, if he repeats his 2023 chances are there will be a lot more teams willing to pay up. 

He's unquestionably talented.

[Dtwncbad]

I just don’t see the Angels going into the season with this rotation.  They are going to add somebody to the rotation right??

[tdawg87]

I think so. But won't be surprised if they don't.

The direction of the team is just beyond me at this point.

[Jay]

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I just don’t see the Angels going into the season with this rotation.  They are going to add somebody to the rotation right??

If I were to guess I would say this is it. Why would they intentionally wait this long to finalize the roster?

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I just don’t see the Angels going into the season with this rotation.  They are going to add somebody to the rotation right??

Have a feeling we roll with this rotation. 

[T.G.]

 

[Angels 1961]

12 minutes ago, EdmontonAngelsFan said:

Have a feeling we roll with this rotation. 

Not much depth have 5 but after that very thin. Depending if Soriano and Wantz can be stretched out but after that not much.

[Taylor]

2 hours ago, EdmontonAngelsFan said:

I miss Bill Stoneman. 

And Sosh.

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

38 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Not much depth have 5 but after that very thin. Depending if Soriano and Wantz can be stretched out but after that not much.

I'm glad you put a period in your post because I was ready to run out of breath trying to read it!

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I just don’t see the Angels going into the season with this rotation.  They are going to add somebody to the rotation right??

Unless it's signing Montgomery (which doesn't seem likely), you'd be looking at adding someone like a Lorenzen or Clevinger.  I think there's a reasonable chance that the current five guys could put up numbers comparable to Lorenzen or Clevinger this year, so you'd be signing someone for depth more than elevated performance.  There's certainly an argument to be made for adding depth, but I personally don't look at a rotation of Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, Anderson, and Lorenzen as an upgrade over Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, Anderson, and Silseth.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand your point but the reality is 5 2/3 innings of a Snell start puts a team in a better position to win than about 90% of what other starters would give you.

Nobody averaged 7 innings per start.  Alcantara was tops at 6 2/3.  Almost every of else was right around where Snell was.

It’s more the injury history that led to only two seasons with over 130 innings.

Other than those two Cy Young seasons, he made more than 24 starts only once, and that was 27 starts.

 

Edited March 19 by Angel Oracle

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

There's certainly an argument to be made for adding depth, but I personally don't look at a rotation of Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, Anderson, and Lorenzen as an upgrade over Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, Anderson, and Silseth.

It may not be an upgrade, but it isn't worse, imo, and I think our depth is particularly concerning, tbh. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

16 hours ago, Stradling said:

they were a contender year in and year out

I see what you did there.

16 hours ago, Stradling said:

Do we think the Angels had some incredible run prior to Arte?  I mean I love this team, but it wasn’t like they were a contender year in and year out, until Arte owned them. 

Don't get me wrong, Arte does deserve some credit for not completely fucking over the franchise from day one. The Vlad signing is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting here though. Aside from him, all the main pieces of the 2002-2009 run were already there. The franchise had already arrived.

[Stradling]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

I see what you did there.

Don't get me wrong, Arte does deserve some credit for not completely fucking over the franchise from day one. The Vlad signing is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting here though. Aside from him, all the main pieces of the 2002-2009 run were already there. The franchise had already arrived.

Vlad, Hunter, Escobar, Colon, Morales, Weaver, Orlando Cabrera.