The Official Los Angeles Angels 2023-2024 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[Dtwncbad]

Arte is an idiot for overpaying for free agents out of foolish desperation.  The guy has no discipline.

Arte is an idiot for not just signing Snell for his asking price.  The guy is a cheap bastard.

[Blarg]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Snell is a fit for a team that is in a win now mode.

None of those teams seem all that interested. If there were any interest he would have been signed a month ago. Between contract demands, his lack of stringing quality seasons back to back, inability to get past the 5th inning, all of these reasons have teams saying, no thanks. He is not as good as the hype around him is and GMs no longer give a damn about one outlier season. 

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

None of those teams seem all that interested. If there were any interest he would have been signed a month ago. Between contract demands, his lack of stringing quality seasons back to back, inability to get past the 5th inning, all of these reasons have teams saying, no thanks. He is not as good as the hype around him is and GMs no longer give a damn about one outlier season. 

More like most teams recognize he is a quality starting pitcher that absolutely can help them but the asking price right now is higher than they would like to pay.

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

More like most teams recognize he is a quality starting pitcher that absolutely can help them but the asking price right now is higher than they would like to pay.

He is not that quality of a pitcher. He has two Cy Young awards where the competition was crap, unable to beat out a guy that averages 5 innings per game. He was the tallest pygmy last season.

The previous 4 seasons he was a 104 ERA+ pitcher. Patrick Sandoval was a 109 ERA+ pitcher last season. Over the last 4 seasons Sandoval has been a 116 ERA+ pitcher. 

If you think your getting 2023 Blake Snell this season you are ignoring who has been most like his career. And that is not a Cy Young pitcher. Not even a runner up. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

You're right. Arte is the best and Rendon loves baseball and is an incredible teammate/player. If we could only be super fans like you. 

This is rich coming from the same guy that tried to paint me as a "different" kind of fan because I choose not to obsess over the tripe "superfans" fawn all over.

What exactly does Rendon have to do with Moreno not being willing to give him an average of 35 mil or an opt out after one year.?  

Rendon Derangement Syndrome is now officially a thing.  

[Stradling]

This past season for Snell was so good he wasn’t the tallest pigmy.  He pitched 180 innings struck out over 220 hitters allowed less than 6 hits per nine and allowed 45 earned runs. He would have been in the Cy Young conversation in virtually any year with those stats.  Is that who he is going forward?  Probably not, but he very well could be closer to that than merely above average in his normal years. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is rich coming from the same guy that tried to paint me as a "different" kind of fan because I choose not to obsess over the tripe "superfans" fawn all over.

What exactly does Rendon have to do with Moreno not being willing to give him an average of 35 mil or an opt out after one year.?  

Rendon Derangement Syndrome is now officially a thing.  

It’s funny how people who obsess over Rendon claim I’m the one who obsesses over him. They bring him up in threads that aren’t even about him. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

This past season for Snell was so good he wasn’t the tallest pigmy.  He pitched 180 innings struck out over 220 hitters allowed less than 6 hits per nine and allowed 45 earned runs. He would have been in the Cy Young conversation in virtually any year with those stats.  Is that who he is going forward?  Probably not, but he very well could be closer to that than merely above average in his normal years. 

He's as talented as they come he's just got a history of lacking durability and playing down.  Sometimes guys defy their histories, sometimes they live up to them, like Rendon (Made of glass).  Dude has a career ERA+ of 104 in his non Cy Yong seasons.

[tdawg87]

Did someone say Rendon

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Did someone say Rendon

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

He is not that quality of a pitcher. He has two Cy Young awards where the competition was crap, unable to beat out a guy that averages 5 innings per game. He was the tallest pygmy last season.

The previous 4 seasons he was a 104 ERA+ pitcher. Patrick Sandoval was a 109 ERA+ pitcher last season. Over the last 4 seasons Sandoval has been a 116 ERA+ pitcher. 

If you think your getting 203 Blake Snell this season you are ignoring who has been most like his career. And that is not a Cy Young pitcher. Not even a runner up. 

I didn’t say he was reliably an elite player.  I said he is a quality starting pitcher.  You are going to have a really hard time saying he isn’t a quality starting pitcher.  He would be the Angels #1.  If he isn’t a quality starting pitcher then you are saying the Angels have zero quality starting pitchers.  And I would disagree.

Snell would be the #1 or #2 on most teams.  Maybe a #3 on a truly elite rotation.

I fully understand the ways to pick him apart.  But you can find things to be concerned about on almost every starting pitcher.

The biggest knock on Snell is “he is a 5 inning pitcher.”

Well, so is almost everybody.

“Of the 117 starters who threw at least 100 innings last season, 13 averaged more than six innings per start (with a high of 6.6 from Marlins Sandy Alcántara, and 12 averaged fewer than five (with a low of 4.6 from Luke Weaver). Everyone else is clustered into the narrow five-to-six range.”

Baseball itself has evolved into strategic equations, where, like it or not, they expect 5-6 innings from the starter.

Snell averaged 5.625 innings per start last year.  Basically 5 2/3.

He is delivering what the equation asks for.

The Angels just built a bullpen set up to be a great fit for the “equation” of starters basically getting through the lineup twice and then going to the bullpen.

I would even be tempted to put money on Snell leading the Angel starters in innings.

He is definitely a quality starting pitcher, unless your definition of quality is “special” or “elite” or “true ace every year.”

 

Edited March 17 by Dtwncbad

[rafibomb]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Try again.  It’s two years $66 million guaranteed with an opt out after 2024.  
 

 

 

Im not giving Snell this contract just for him to opt out after year 1 with no playoffs leaving us without a second rounder. All for people to be happy we signed someone who is obviously better suited for a legit contender on that contract. 

[Dtwncbad]

Wouldn’t it be interesting if player had to pick the length of their next contract when they file for free agency?

They would have to pick the exact number of years and then stick to it.

It would reduce the free agency negotiations to just haggling over dollars, rather than the (sometimes) never-ending going back and forth over dollars AND years.

The mlbpa would never go for it but it is interesting to imagine.

So you might have someone like Snell designate that he is filing for a 5 year deal.  Or JD Martinez files for a one year deal.

Heck, they could even have a freaking auction live on TV.  “Next up, we have Blake Snell for five years.  Opening bid is obviously mlb minimum.  We have $70m, now $74m, we have $100m from the Mets, now $102 from the Yankees. . . .”    That would be fun to watch.

What is the point of talking about things that would never happen?  I don’t know, I’m bored.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 3/16/2024 at 8:42 AM, Angels 1961 said:

Ron Washington seen at Denny's yesterday. After getting his 15% discount with his AARP card was asked about Snell. He said he cannot let the cat out of the bag.

l'm calling PETA, keeping a cat in a bag. how cruel

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Snell is a fit for a team that is in a win now mode. The Angels need players who want to commit to building a winner. And that's a hard sell given the Angels track record.

If the Angels sign Snell they should do it with the hope of flipping him for prospects at the deadline. Whatever value is left on the contract at that point will determine how much the return is.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

l'm calling PETA, keeping a cat in a bag. how cruel

PETA has enough cats in bags. 

[ThisismineScios]

I reacted initially to the Arte reports, and now feel like Rosenthal's report came from Boras. Again, why would Arte tell Perry absolutely not on the big names whatsoever in free agency but yes to a RP for 3/33 who essentially had one good run in one season? That speaks to a level of autonomy, especially since it's a RP that will not have a bobblehead or sell tickets. Now, I get the scale of contract is bigger, but it doesn't seem like Arte is controlling every single decision. We have a primary source on this (him) that said, "I wanted Trea, Perry convinced me to spread the money around." 

My main gripe with Arte is that he is not clear with the direction of the team. I know he doesn't have to be, but this is a baseball team with very passionate fans. You can choose to run it how you want, but the better-run orgs in the league are open and honest, or at the very least have consistency. Arte pulled the team off the market, said a lot about wanting to do it right, win, unfinished business, but our main frustration is that we have no idea what that means. Do it right could mean finally let his GM hire his own staff, build a lab (we'll see), hire assistant pitching coaches at every level...who knows what he meant. We tend to think of things only in Free Agency money spent, as do I a lot of the time. But there HAS to be a reason Arte, at 77, decided not to take $3 billion and go live in Arizona or something. There has to be something he wants in these last few years before he can't do it anymore. It's just....annoying? that none of us, media, or anyone really besides probably Roger Lodge have any idea what that means AND what it means for the Angels.

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

PETA has enough cats in bags. 

Do u think PETA knows when Lorenzen is signing and where?

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is rich coming from the same guy that tried to paint me as a "different" kind of fan because I choose not to obsess over the tripe "superfans" fawn all over.

What exactly does Rendon have to do with Moreno not being willing to give him an average of 35 mil or an opt out after one year.?  

Rendon Derangement Syndrome is now officially a thing.  

You're a different fan than me because you reference stats I don't understand. That's me being humble to admit that. 

[ThisismineScios]

1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

If the Angels sign Snell they should do it with the hope of flipping him for prospects at the deadline. Whatever value is left on the contract at that point will determine how much the return is.

I don't think that's the best idea, because if he's pitching at a 4.50 ERA or he's only pitched 10 games at the deadline, you're out a pick and stuck with him on what could be a "rebuilding" one year season. I think they have to get 2 years guaranteed, bare minimum. You can trade him this deadline, this offseason, or next deadline. That's 3 chances. Or, if he has a good season and the team finishes around .500, it's attractive to FAs to see a team on the rise with Snell coming back. 

[ThisismineScios]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Try again.  It’s two years $66 million guaranteed with an opt out after 2024.  
 

 

 

If the Angels give him a contract like this, I'd hope fan reaction would be just as angry as they are at Arte for seemingly not giving him one. We should not be giving out at contract like this. It does not fit our team. I would be ok with anything 4-6 years or 4-5 with an opt out after 2. 2 years guaranteed allows for some real growth and impact. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, ThisismineScios said:

I don't think that's the best idea, because if he's pitching at a 4.50 ERA or he's only pitched 10 games at the deadline, you're out a pick and stuck with him on what could be a "rebuilding" one year season. I think they have to get 2 years guaranteed, bare minimum. You can trade him this deadline, this offseason, or next deadline. That's 3 chances. Or, if he has a good season and the team finishes around .500, it's attractive to FAs to see a team on the rise with Snell coming back. 

I have previously said I wouldn't be willing to give him an opt out after year one. Just having that opt out there will make him a rental for whoever trades for him, and significantly reduce his value. Having a second guaranteed season at a reasonable dollar amount will significantly increase his trade value. 

If he wants an opt out after year one than I would not want to give him even what they gave Syndergaard. 

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Arte is an idiot for overpaying for free agents out of foolish desperation.  The guy has no discipline.

Arte is an idiot for not just signing Snell for his asking price.  The guy is a cheap bastard.

Arte is an idiot for pushing the wrong FA upon our many GMs.
Arte is an idiot for advocating trading prospects and not trading Ohtani last year.
Arte is an idiot for declaring we're not rebuilding and then doing virtually nothing. 

Arte is an idiot for making the baseball decisions instead of the GM. 

There is absolutely no clear plan what-so-ever. 

Being a perennially so-so team is the worst reality for a team. We're not sucking enough to rebuild, and we're not even sniffing the playoffs. 

[mmc]

7 hours ago, Stradling said:

He’s interested in him on his perception of the right deal. 

Lol @ acting like this means something.  I'm sure every owner is interested in Snell if they can get him on "the right deal"

[Angels 1961]

25 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Arte is an idiot for pushing the wrong FA upon our many GMs.
Arte is an idiot for advocating trading prospects and not trading Ohtani last year.
Arte is an idiot for declaring we're not rebuilding and then doing virtually nothing. 

Arte is an idiot for making the baseball decisions instead of the GM. 

There is absolutely no clear plan what-so-ever. 

Being a perennially so-so team is the worst reality for a team. We're not sucking enough to rebuild, and we're not even sniffing the playoffs. 

Losing 8 straight years for me is time to let young players develop. Use this year to see where young pitchers and position players are at. No need to throw money around like your 1 player away.