Gameday Thread (7/7/23): Angels @ Dodgers - Rendon still out but active

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Who hired Clay Daniel’s and when did they shut down the operation?  Was shutting it down the right thing in the moment or was there another way?  

That was Stoneman. 

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Who hired Clay Daniel’s and when did they shut down the operation?  Was shutting it down the right thing in the moment or was there another way?  

Donny Rowland ran the entire system -- he was either his hire or one of the Sutherland brothers.  Hiring him wasn't a mistake, the guy was a legitimately good scout, the issue was he was dirty.  As far as if it was right thing to do, it didn't really matter.  The Angels were caught red handed and were branded crooks -- they stood almost no chance at signing anyone that wasn't complete garbage.

The irony is that buscones are the biggest crooks in the DR but they were able to use it to their advantage and steer guys away to teams they worked with and got kickbacks from.

There is no getting around that what Daniels did was wrong -- but it kinda pales in comparison to some of the stuff that used to go down in Latin America in those days.  The shit the Dodgers did with Beltre hiding him away was borderline kidnapping. 

 

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

That was Stoneman. 

More likely the Sutherlands than Stoneman, but it was under his watch so, he gets to wear it.

Donny Rowland was the guy that got fired for trying to undermine Stoneman and take his job -- another dude who was bad news but a ridiculously good judge of talent.

The Angels ranking number 1 in 2005 or so was pretty much 100% the Sutherland brothers and Rowland.

[Inside Pitch]

Rowland BTW is currently the Yankees director of international scouting...  If you wonder how they manage to get so many guys and how they find so many people other teams never heard of...  He's the reason.

[Angel Oracle]

The Braves seem to have a good presence in Latin America?

If so, hopefully we see that with Minasian’s direction.

[Inside Pitch]

 

All BS aside, the Angels had amassed one of the absolute best scouting departments in MLB under Bill Stoneman.  Stoneman's greatest asset was skill at finding quality people to delegate work to. The Sutherland brothers were absolutely freaks judging talent, one of them has been chosen as BBA's minor league executive of the decade while in Montreal.  They were also responsible for the Kimera Bartee/Chone Figgins deal and the acquisition of David Eckstein.

Stoneman had inherited some quality scouts from Fontaine -- another guy that was much better than people realized -- he was the dude behind the guys that made up that 2002 team.  But Stoneman managed to keep all the best from that era and then let the Sutherlands bring in everyone else...

My hate for Dipoto had everything to do with how he gutted the scouting department.  So many of the guys he let go went on to join the BoSox and helped usher in their winning -- it will never be okay with me that a lot of the Angels scouts basically moved on to the Yankees and Red Sox and helped them as much as they did while the Angels floundered.

[Inside Pitch]

18 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

The Braves seem to have a good presence in Latin America?

If so, hopefully we see that with Minasian’s direction.

I'm sure the last two weeks has soured a lot of people on Minasian, but a lot of what's right in the organization is mostly due to him and his ability like Stoneman to hire people smarter than he is.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm suire the last two weeks has soured a lot of people on Minasian, but a lot of whats right in the organization is mostly due to him and his ability like Stoneman to hire people smarter than he is.

He isn’t responsible for the injury contagion.  They were doing fine until that.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:17 PM, Erstad Grit said:

How about a Yankees Chapman plan. We tell Ohtani...

"We're going to trade you. You get a playoff run. We prospects. Then when we sign you in the offseason you're coming to a better team." 

The reason you’re calling that a Chapman Plan is because he’s the only guy you can think of who did that. 

[BTH]

37 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The reason you’re calling that a Chapman Plan is because he’s the only guy you can think of who did that. 

I'm not saying it's particularly likely, but isn't there a better chance to do that with Shohei than any other player?

- He has more value than any other rental player.

- He's not re-signing before testing free agency anyway.

- He wants to win and he'd have a better shot at winning in 2024 and beyond with an Angels team that traded him + others at the deadline vs. an Angels team that stood pat.

- He'd get a taste of some other team, where he may find that the market/media/whole setup is less appealing than it is in Anaheim.

[REDneck]

17 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I'm not saying it's particularly likely, but isn't there a better chance to do that with Shohei than any other player?

- He has more value than any other rental player.

- He's not re-signing before testing free agency anyway.

- He wants to win and he'd have a better shot at winning in 2024 and beyond with an Angels team that traded him + others at the deadline vs. an Angels team that stood pat.

- He'd get a taste of some other team, where he may find that the market/media/whole setup is less appealing than it is in Anaheim.

Reaching bro.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

I'm not saying it's particularly likely, but isn't there a better chance to do that with Shohei than any other player?

- He has more value than any other rental player.

- He's not re-signing before testing free agency anyway.

- He wants to win and he'd have a better shot at winning in 2024 and beyond with an Angels team that traded him + others at the deadline vs. an Angels team that stood pat.

- He'd get a taste of some other team, where he may find that the market/media/whole setup is less appealing than it is in Anaheim.

I mean, maybe. But the Angels seem to feel if they let him go they can’t get him back. I have been told this specifically. 

[Revad]

5 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I mean, maybe. But the Angels seem to feel if they let him go they can’t get him back. I have been told this specifically. 

That pretty much settles that if Artie is determined to keep him.  

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Revad said:

That pretty much settles that if Artie is determined to keep him.  

A big decision generally comes from the top and, for the past decade or so, those decisions haven’t been very successful. Why were the decisions better before that?  I think Arte listened to Stoneman. 

[Revad]

37 minutes ago, DMVol said:

A big decision generally comes from the top and, for the past decade or so, those decisions haven’t been very successful. Why were the decisions better before that?  I think Arte listened to Stoneman. 

Apparently Artie listened to Perry about Trea Turner, maybe he’ll listen about trading Ohtani.

[DMVol]

16 minutes ago, Revad said:

Apparently Artie listened to Perry about Trea Turner, maybe he’ll listen about trading Ohtani.

Good point….

[Stradling]

And he listened to him when he fired Joe and released Albert and Upton. 

[DMVol]

56 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And he listened to him when he fired Joe and released Albert and Upton. 

Within the budget he’s given Minasian to work with, he has seemingly allowed him to do his job. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Within the budget he’s given Minasian to work with, he has seemingly allowed him to do his job. 

Yes and this year the budget was enough.  I have no idea if this is the new budget or a one year thing.

[DMVol]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes and this year the budget was enough.  I have no idea if this is the new budget or a one year thing.

The really bad decisions now have some age on them—-Wells, Pujols, Hamilton, whatever happened in the DR market (that seems like more of an internal foul up than an owner thing). The one exception is Rendon. Arte liked him a lot….did he push Eppler to pivot to Rendon after Cole signed with the Yankees? Did Eppler not push back like Perry evidently did with Turner? Don’t know but, whoever made that call, it is fair to criticize it in hindsight. Really big and risky signing for a team that needed a lot of help elsewhere. Upton wasn’t as expensive and wasn’t a terrible decision, even if it didn’t work out as well as it might have. Beyond that, I think the GM’s have to share the bigger share of blame. The decision with Ohtani is huge, it will impact the franchise for years to come. Let’s hope they get it right.