Trout to NYPost on Angels keeping Ohtani: “Ultimately, it’s going to come down if we get to the playoffs”

[full circle]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

The frustrating thing is that it could be.

So far, more underperformance from guys that should be better.  What can anyone do about that when guys with a good track record of success start sucking?  I do think it’d be nice if there was clear clubhouse leadership amongst the players, it’s something that has lacked for a while.  Probably since Torii Hunter. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, full circle said:

Scioscia evolved during his time here and by the end it was clear it was time to move on.  Just because they made poor subsequent hiring decisions doesn’t mean it was the wrong move for him to leave.  

It's not about MS, so much as the standards he (and Bill Stoneman), helped usher in.  He earned his exit, but nothing they have done since has lived up to the standards he had helped establish and the end result has been a constant state of flux.

But it's all good, Arte has unfinished business to take care of.  

[full circle]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's not about MS, so much as the standards he (and Bill Stoneman), helped usher in.  He earned his exit, but nothing they have done since has lived up to the standards he had helped establish and the end result has been a constant state of flux.

But it's all good, Arte has unfinished business to take care of.  

Wasn’t Stoneman still an advisor for a long while after he stepped down as GM?  The constant state of flux is really just a move away from investing and prioritizing drafting and developing.  And that move occurred while Scioscia and Stoneman still had large roles.  Even they couldn’t convince Arte to stay focused on the fundamentals.  It all comes back to the owner. 

[Inside Pitch]

14 hours ago, full circle said:

Wasn’t Stoneman still an advisor for a long while after he stepped down as GM?  The constant state of flux is really just a move away from investing and prioritizing drafting and developing.  And that move occurred while Scioscia and Stoneman still had large roles.  Even they couldn’t convince Arte to stay focused on the fundamentals.  It all comes back to the owner. 

Agree Arte is/has been the problem.. 

But did you somehow missed the episode where the smartest man in the room came in and fired everyone who had been a part of one of MLB's best scouting and development departments and then undermined his manager at every turn going so far as to prohibiting his being able to directly contact the minors or offer insight?   Stoneman and MS were completely cut off during JD's tenure and there really wasn't much either could do to fix the issues created during those years.  

From what I understand Stoneman's role has been extremely limited and as far as MS goes, I remember his being interviewed at the hotel the winter the Angels signed AP and then being mocked by most everyone on this board when he said he wanted them to add pitching when all the board geniuses wanted them to act like the Yankees and sign a hitter.  

 

[Blarg]

I miss the Angels SS (Stoneman/Scioscia) when they ruled with an iron fist. 

[Stradling]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

So Trout is more or less confirming that Ohtani is gone 

Or he’s confirming we need to make the playoffs. 

[Jason]

Just now, Stradling said:

Or he’s confirming we need to make the playoffs. 

Ugh

[Ron Mexico]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

LOL...  This is going to be the standard byline until he either signs or leaves. 

I started accepting an Ohtani-less future two years ago, I said as much here.  I saw/see no point in going all Canadian and repeating it at every turn but I'm genuinely surprised that more people here haven't already moved from believing he will re-sign to expecting him to leave while still hoping something miraculous happens that makes him forget his entire Angels career has been one mired in turmoil.  Constant changes on the field and in the dugout, bad press left and right, and just for shits and giggles ... a couple deaths along the way.  At this point they could win the WS and I can still see him moving on just so he can find a place that isn't in a constant state of flux.   This team has gone from one where stability had become the norm to one where mayhem is the status quo.

The Angels will have a lot of money to spend, either on Ohtani or his replacements.  Hopefully Arte is still in his unfinished business mode when winter comes.   Thank God the 28th ranked farm system is also showing signs of life.

 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Agree Arte is/has been the problem.. 

But did you somehow miss the episode where the smartest man in the room came in and fired everyone who had been a part of one of MLB's best scouting and development departments and then undermined his manager at every turn going so far as to prohibiting his being able to directly contact the minors or offer insight?   Stoneman and MS were completely cut off during JD's tenure and there really wasn't much either could do to fix the issues created during those years.  

From what I understand Stoneman's role has been extremely limited and as far as MS goes, I remember his being interviewed at the hotel the winter the Angels signed AP and then being mocked by most everyone on this board when he said he wanted them to add pitching when all the board geniuses wanted them to act like the Yankees and sign a hitter.  

 

A great man once told me,

 

"You cannot win without full support of the Administration".  

Scioscia did not have support from Dipshito and Eppler.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Julio Urias would be a good start to find his replacement Pitching Wise 

 

 

 

[fan_since79]

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

This is not a playoff team.

It might not even be a .500 team.

 

[Stradling]

11 hours ago, Taylor said:

This is not a playoff team.

I think this team can make the playoffs. 

[TroutField]

5 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

It might not even be a .500 team.

 

They are literally 10-10

[Warfarin]

12 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

Julio Urias would be a good start to find his replacement Pitching Wise 

 

 

 

Yeah.  Like @Inside Pitch, I have somewhat resigned myself that this is probably his last season here, barring a deep run in the playoffs, which seems unlikely.  This team does seem to have a lot more talent, and the growth of the farm system since Minasian has taken over has been really impressive.  There's a lot of talent coming up soon, and we're even seeing guys promoted now and having some success (O'Hoppe. maybe Neto, as he has surprisingly held his own so far).  I feel like had Minasian taken over a few years prior, and been able to grow the farm system a few more years, we'd have a good core of young players, which would have likely helped us in retaining Ohtani.

But, that said, I think this team CAN recover if Ohtani does leave.  I do hope that Arte permits Minasian to trade him if we are out of contention.  Given the Dodgers seem like his preferred destination, maybe we could work something out where they can negotiate a contract with him prior to trading him, which would enable us to get a really good return of players who are MLB ready (a top pitching prospect, a really good LHH to replace Ohtani, and so on).  And then use the money to sign either Nola or Urias to replace Ohtani.  

If the above happens, while it would suck to lose Ohtani, I think this team could probably recover well enough, especially with the farm system developing as it has been.

[Revad]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

If the above happens, while it would suck to lose Ohtani, I think this team could probably recover well enough, especially with the farm system developing as it has been.

As Trout was getting a scheduled rest day last night I was thinking two things:  I should appreciate the games Ohtani and Trout play together and it would be nice to have the DH open for Trout and Rendon.

[Warfarin]

9 minutes ago, Revad said:

As Trout was getting a scheduled rest day last night I was thinking two things:  I should appreciate the games Ohtani and Trout play together and it would be nice to have the DH open for Trout and Rendon.

Well .. I would love to keep Ohtani and hope this team can go on a run to convince him to stay.  But I think they have to definitely gauge his feeling mid-season and if he truly does not sound interested in returning, or it seems doubtful, you absolutely have to trade him.  The worst case scenario is to keep him, not make the playoffs, and watch him leave for nothing.  Even for 2 months of Ohtani, we could probably get a few top 100 prospects for him.  Combine those prospects with signing one of the top FA SPs, and I think we could be fine.

[Jeff Fletcher]

15 hours ago, full circle said:

I do think it’d be nice if there was clear clubhouse leadership amongst the players, it’s something that has lacked for a while.  Probably since Torii Hunter. 

How would it be clear to you?

[cals]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

How would it be clear to you?

He’d have a “C” patch on his chest!

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Revad said:

As Trout was getting a scheduled rest day last night I was thinking two things:  I should appreciate the games Ohtani and Trout play together and it would be nice to have the DH open for Trout and Rendon.

Yep. People hate when Trout or Rendon get days off but they’d notice a lot less if they were worked through the DH spot once or twice a week a piece. 

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep. People hate when Trout or Rendon get days off but they’d notice a lot less if they were worked through the DH spot once or twice a week a piece. 

Well, yeah, because they wouldn't be getting days off in that scenario. 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Well, yeah, because they wouldn't be getting days off in that scenario. 

Right. But you’d agree if the DH spot was open they’d both play more games, right?

[jsnpritchett]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Right. But you’d agree if the DH spot was open they’d both play more games, right?

Of course. 

[arch stanton]

Isn’t it better to give them early days off against bad teams than to fret them being worn out in a potential playoff push in September?

[Stradling]

Just now, arch stanton said:

Isn’t it better to give them early days off against bad teams than to fret them being worn out in a potential playoff push in September?

Yes.  It also make sense to give them days off during the longest stretch of games of the season.  

[Angelsjunky]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:38 PM, Inside Pitch said:

Even crazier.....  They rank 10th overall in MLB wins since 1990 

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-mlb-wins-since-1990#:~:text=Which MLB team has the,the most in the MLB.

And again -- 10th overall since 1980

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-mlb-wins-since-1980

Look kids, Big Ben!

10th overall since the 1970s

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-mlb-wins-since-1970
 

Don't forget that the further you go back, the more expansion teams peel away from the total. So we've got:

2000+: 10th out of 30

1990+: 10th out of 26

1970/80+: 10th out of 24

Edited April 22, 2023 by Angelsjunky