Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[AngelStew43]

That is FAR too lopsided in favor of the Marlins.  I would hope that it wouldn’t even be considered.  
 

I could see us making a trade involving Quero and Adell, maybe one of the power arms, but to strip the farm in a trade like that would leave the farm in the same condition that it was three years ago.

[Warfarin]

51 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Can someone tell me what the fascination with Miguel Rojas is? 

Saw this on Twitter and I almost spit out my 10-year Whistle Pig.

WTF?

There is no need for us to look into acquiring Rojas, as we essentially have a similar player (but with more upside) in Fletcher. 

There's a lot of garbage on Twitter, and that is an example of it.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

That is FAR too lopsided in favor of the Marlins.  I would hope that it wouldn’t even be considered.  
 

I could see us making a trade involving Quero and Adell, maybe one of the power arms, but to strip the farm in a trade like that would leave the farm in the same condition that it was three years ago.

This is precisely why I think we should largely avoid any kind of significant trades.  Our farm system, while improving, is still rather mediocre.  I would not trade away anyone that we feel can be a core contributor at this present time.  The trade for Renfroe, in which we were basically trading away a backend SP, is fine, but I would avoid trading guys like Neto, O'Hoppe, Bush, Silseth.  We need to hang onto our youth and develop them properly.

[Second Base]

I would prefer to hang onto Adell unless there's something truly valuable you're getting in return. Acquiring Renfroe bought the Angels one more season of minor league development for Jo Adell. If he makes the adjustments, then the Angels have their LF of the future for cheap. If he doesn't, then you have a 4th outfielder or you can just discard him. 

[Second Base]

I still think I'd be shopping a Suarez-Rengifo package to see what kind of starting pitcher options that can get me, then use whatever money left over before the luxury tax on the bullpen. 

Depending on the return, I bet the Angels could creep up toward 90 wins and a playoff spot. In my opinion, right now they're like an 85 win team. Minasian has been aggressive and off your not going to sell off assets then I like it, I just think his work it's unfinished. 

It's incomplete. 

[Angels 1961]

7 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I would prefer to hang onto Adell unless there's something truly valuable you're getting in return. Acquiring Renfroe bought the Angels one more season of minor league development for Jo Adell. If he makes the adjustments, then the Angels have their LF of the future for cheap. If he doesn't, then you have a 4th outfielder or you can just discard him. 

I agree about Adell

[Warfarin]

32 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I would prefer to hang onto Adell unless there's something truly valuable you're getting in return. Acquiring Renfroe bought the Angels one more season of minor league development for Jo Adell. If he makes the adjustments, then the Angels have their LF of the future for cheap. If he doesn't, then you have a 4th outfielder or you can just discard him. 

Unfortunately, I think if he doesn't make adjustments, you have someone who isn't an MLB player - not a 4th OF.  Ideally, a 4th OF has a decent enough hit tool and can cover all 3 OF spots.  Adell has great power, but a very poor hit tool (currently) and can only effectively field one position.

I think, for now, "discard" is the most likely option, if he can't significantly improve his ability to make contact.

[Second Base]

Braves made two more trades. Can we just assume that every time the Braves make a trade, the Angels lost out on someone? 

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Unfortunately, I think if he doesn't make adjustments, you have someone who isn't an MLB player - not a 4th OF.  Ideally, a 4th OF has a decent enough hit tool and can cover all 3 OF spots.  Adell has great power, but a very poor hit tool (currently) and can only effectively field one position.

I think, for now, "discard" is the most likely option, if he can't significantly improve his ability to make contact.

Yeah, you're right. 

[Hubs]

6 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Will also link @Hubs to this, since he discussed it upthread as well.

This is actually an interesting idea - the concept of seeing this team use, essentially, "5.5 starters."

That could actually make acquiring a 6th starter not particularly necessary, given off days and whatnot.

If they indeed do this, then we can instead invest the remaining available dollars into the bullpen, as you said.

The 6th starter, in the above, can be oscillated between the guys you mentioned (except Barria, who I feel is not considered a SP by the FO).  I think Ky Bush could be an option too.  Even Rosenberg and Diaz, who were DFA'd and readied, can potentially fill that spot every now and then, as long as it is not too often.

I am a fan of this idea.  

It’s not my idea, they said they were doing this once they signed Anderson. 
 

They have 22 days off in 2023, including five for the All Star Break. 
 

Best guess is If they start Ohtani and Anderson in the 1-2 spots and keep them on five days rest… they will first need a 6th starter on April 16th in Boston and then two more turns. 4-23 home to KC and 4-29 at Milwaukee.maybe 5-7 home to Texas and three more times in May and three total times in June. Once in July, maybe 2x and then three times in August and three times in September.

That’s 15-16 starts. Leaving 146 for the other five guys. 30- 32 starts for Ohtani, 30-32 for Anderson, Say 28-30 For Sandoval and Detmers… that leaves just 22-30 for Suarez.

Now I know it’s not going exactly to plan and I know that health is a variable you can’t plan for but I’m fine with Canning, Rodriguez, Silseth, Bush, and Barria getting the 6th spots if it’s 15-20 or so. 

[Angels 1961]

23 minutes ago, Hubs said:

It’s not my idea, they said they were doing this once they signed Anderson. 
 

They have 22 days off in 2023, including five for the All Star Break. 
 

Best guess is If they start Ohtani and Anderson in the 1-2 spots and keep them on five days rest… they will first need a 6th starter on April 16th in Boston and then two more turns. 4-23 home to KC and 4-29 at Milwaukee.maybe 5-7 home to Texas and three more times in May and three total times in June. Once in July, maybe 2x and then three times in August and three times in September.

That’s 15-16 starts. Leaving 146 for the other five guys. 30- 32 starts for Ohtani, 30-32 for Anderson, Say 28-30 For Sandoval and Detmers… that leaves just 22-30 for Suarez.

Now I know it’s not going exactly to plan and I know that health is a variable you can’t plan for but I’m fine with Canning, Rodriguez, Silseth, Bush, and Barria getting the 6th spots if it’s 15-20 or so. 

Just use a 5-man rotation like all other teams.

[ThisismineScios]

I think I'd prefer, at this point, to sign a pitcher in the $8-10 million range, hope to get 20 starts out of him, and look to see what Rengifo and Suarez can get me, as @Second Base said. I think the right team could really value those two--Suarez in particular has a lot of value as a 24 year-old LHP whose had some success already. With Rengifo, you just need to find the right team to bite. No reason you can't get a solid #3 pitcher for that. The perfect scenario for me is this:

-Sign Wacha or Greinke (#5)
-Trade Rengifo+Suarez for a quality arm (low end 3, high end 4)
-Sign Andrus (Fletcher then covers 2B and SS)
-Sign 2-3 OF guys to minors deals
-Sign 1 major league reliever (Britton-Knebel-Fulmer)
-Sign 2-3 RP to minors deals
-Dump Loup or Tepera for PTBNL if you can

I think this gets you to Seattle and maybe above. 

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Can someone tell me what the fascination with Miguel Rojas is? 

Saw this on Twitter and I almost spit out my 10-year Whistle Pig.

WTF?

This is, of course, a ridiculous trade but it highlights something important and that is how low Rengifo's value is according to a computer algorithm.  I absolutely disagree but the question you have to ask yourself is why and something I've been trying to point out in regards to Luis.  

He accumulated 1.9 WAR in about a half a season.  And did so on the back of a 2.6% walk rate.  Now, do I want to see more?  Absolutely.  Because it sure at shit seemed like a breakout but if he holds to form with that walk rate he's gonna have to hit for a pretty damn good average and for good power if that value is going to persist.  

And the computer doesn't always see things that humans can see but sometimes it sees things that humans don't want to see and in this case it's that Luis Rengifo is high risk.  Which is exactly why you go out and get Brandon Drury and Gio Urshela.  Because of all the risk surrounding Rengifo and Walsh and Rendon and Fletcher.  

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, ThisismineScios said:

-Sign Wacha or Greinke (#5)
-Trade Rengifo+Suarez for a quality arm (low end 3, high end 4)
-Sign Andrus (Fletcher then covers 2B and SS)
-Sign 2-3 OF guys to minors deals
-Sign 1 major league reliever (Britton-Knebel-Fulmer)
-Sign 2-3 RP to minors deals
-Dump Loup or Tepera for PTBNL if you can

First of all, in your scenario you're spending almost another $30m because no one is going to take the contracts of Loup or Tepera.  You're better off keeping those guys for at least half a season to see if reliever volatility can increase their value.  

I'd be cool with signing Wacha or Greinke, but why do the rest?  

If we're talking about a Pablo Lopez type, Suarez is about what Lopez was after 2021.  Lopez has 2 years of control.  Jose Suarez has 4.  

And ask yourself which MIF is better.  Rengfio, Drury, Fletcher or Andrus, Drury, Fletcher.  

How about we just sign Greinke and Fulmer and call it a day.  Personally, I'd prefer they add a 4th OFer on top of that because they've already don't those minors deals and right now moniak is still your main 4th OFer unless they get overly creative.  But they got Oliva, Aguilar, Barrera, and Whitefield as those minor league OFers.  Plus a few other guys who have stood out there before.  

On the RP side, they've already signed Devenski, Jacob Webb, Jonathan Holder, Nash Walters and Fernando Romero to minor league deals.  So they're probably good.  

Maybe they'll add one more OFer and RP as NRIs.  

Kind of taking the occam's razor approach at this point where the simplest approach is the most likely to happen.  

[ThisismineScios]

17 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

First of all, in your scenario you're spending almost another $30m because no one is going to take the contracts of Loup or Tepera.  You're better off keeping those guys for at least half a season to see if reliever volatility can increase their value.  

I'd be cool with signing Wacha or Greinke, but why do the rest?  

If we're talking about a Pablo Lopez type, Suarez is about what Lopez was after 2021.  Lopez has 2 years of control.  Jose Suarez has 4.  

And ask yourself which MIF is better.  Rengfio, Drury, Fletcher or Andrus, Drury, Fletcher.  

How about we just sign Greinke and Fulmer and call it a day.  Personally, I'd prefer they add a 4th OFer on top of that because they've already don't those minors deals and right now moniak is still your main 4th OFer unless they get overly creative.  But they got Oliva, Aguilar, Barrera, and Whitefield as those minor league OFers.  Plus a few other guys who have stood out there before.  

On the RP side, they've already signed Devenski, Jacob Webb, Jonathan Holder, Nash Walters and Fernando Romero to minor league deals.  So they're probably good.  

Maybe they'll add one more OFer and RP as NRIs.  

Kind of taking the occam's razor approach at this point where the simplest approach is the most likely to happen.  

Probably Lower on Suarez than most. I don’t see a ton of room to grow—velo, low swing and miss, works slowly.

Andrus to me is some combination of Fletcher and Rengifo. Not a good one per se. But I’m worried about Fletchers bat or Rengifo’s glove in the lineup frequently. Fletcher is essentially our starting SS at this point. 

Agree I’d be happy if that was all too. Just being picky. 

[Cosmo_Kramer]

Still feels like they grab one more pitcher

[Rico]

Question.  Have we completely given up on Barria as a starter?  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Rico said:

Question.  Have we completely given up on Barria as a starter?  

I would think so. He had success as a long reliever.  Leave him there. 

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

It’s not my idea, they said they were doing this once they signed Anderson. 
 

They have 22 days off in 2023, including five for the All Star Break. 
 

Best guess is If they start Ohtani and Anderson in the 1-2 spots and keep them on five days rest… they will first need a 6th starter on April 16th in Boston and then two more turns. 4-23 home to KC and 4-29 at Milwaukee.maybe 5-7 home to Texas and three more times in May and three total times in June. Once in July, maybe 2x and then three times in August and three times in September.

That’s 15-16 starts. Leaving 146 for the other five guys. 30- 32 starts for Ohtani, 30-32 for Anderson, Say 28-30 For Sandoval and Detmers… that leaves just 22-30 for Suarez.

Now I know it’s not going exactly to plan and I know that health is a variable you can’t plan for but I’m fine with Canning, Rodriguez, Silseth, Bush, and Barria getting the 6th spots if it’s 15-20 or so. 

If health permits, then yeah - that's not a bad plan.  Also take into consideration that we will (hopefully?) see growth out of Silseth and Bush, as well as (eventual) health out of Canning (I'm not going to assume anything for CRod right now), then it increases the possibility that those guys can become factors, especially by the second half of the season.

That said, I think the biggest issue is what you said - health.  If, say, two of our SPs go down (let's just say Sandoval and Suarez), then we are facing a rotation of Ohtani, Anderson, Detmers, and .. Silseth?  Barria?  Then who gets the 6th spot start?  And so on.

I like the promise of the guys we have, and I think our farm system might actually pump out a few solid SP options very soon - the key thing is we just need to bridge the gap to them.

[tdawg87]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I would think so. He had success as a long reliever.  Leave him there. 

I don't know about "giving up on him", but he seems to have carved out a niche as a long reliever, and right now that's just as valuable to the team. 

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

First of all, in your scenario you're spending almost another $30m because no one is going to take the contracts of Loup or Tepera.  You're better off keeping those guys for at least half a season to see if reliever volatility can increase their value.  

I'd be cool with signing Wacha or Greinke, but why do the rest?  

If we're talking about a Pablo Lopez type, Suarez is about what Lopez was after 2021.  Lopez has 2 years of control.  Jose Suarez has 4.  

And ask yourself which MIF is better.  Rengfio, Drury, Fletcher or Andrus, Drury, Fletcher.  

How about we just sign Greinke and Fulmer and call it a day.  Personally, I'd prefer they add a 4th OFer on top of that because they've already don't those minors deals and right now moniak is still your main 4th OFer unless they get overly creative.  But they got Oliva, Aguilar, Barrera, and Whitefield as those minor league OFers.  Plus a few other guys who have stood out there before.  

On the RP side, they've already signed Devenski, Jacob Webb, Jonathan Holder, Nash Walters and Fernando Romero to minor league deals.  So they're probably good.  

Maybe they'll add one more OFer and RP as NRIs.  

Kind of taking the occam's razor approach at this point where the simplest approach is the most likely to happen.  

I think, if we are ultimately aiming to go below the LT, our "final" MLB move would probably be either Greinke or Fulmer.  Assuming we probably have about 7mil or so to spend, I think that likely nets you Greinke or Fulmer, but not both.

The 4th OF part, as time has gone on, I have softened my view on this.  Ideally, we can see one of the guys on the team emerge and fill that roll, with Moniak and Barrera probably currently the favorites.  If all of them suck though, then we can probably pivot to not having one until someone looks like a veritable option, and instead carry 3 infielders.  Walsh and Rengifo, while not optimal, can flex out to the OF and spot start as needed.  And over time, hopefully one of our many OF options looks decent enough to promote.  Of course, if and when an injury occurs, then yeah, we gotta promote someone regardless.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't know about "giving up on him", but he seems to have carved out a niche as a long reliever, and right now that's just as valuable to the team. 

It seems that they don't really trust him to go through the lineup a third time and pitch effectively.  Perhaps the decision to keep him in the pen is the concern that they will have to pull him from starts early fairly frequently, and thus tax the pen too often.

But yeah, I agree.  He seems fine in his role.  Every team needs a guy like that on the roster - to absorb innings in blowout games.  That said, teams only need one of those guys, not two, so I am not sure what they will ultimately do with Davidson.

[angelsnationtalk]

19 hours ago, Second Base said:

I wouldn't say that here. People will think you hate the Angels. 

Good point, saying how things truly look can offend a lot of people.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

It seems that they don't really trust him to go through the lineup a third time and pitch effectively.  Perhaps the decision to keep him in the pen is the concern that they will have to pull him from starts early fairly frequently, and thus tax the pen too often.

But yeah, I agree.  He seems fine in his role.  Every team needs a guy like that on the roster - to absorb innings in blowout games.  That said, teams only need one of those guys, not two, so I am not sure what they will ultimately do with Davidson.

Davidson might just be a guy they stash in the pen who gets maybe 40-50 innings, plus a spot start here and there. 

Idk I don't see much value with him. 

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Davidson might just be a guy they stash in the pen who gets maybe 40-50 innings, plus a spot start here and there. 

Idk I don't see much value with him. 

I'm guessing the Braves were going to DFA him soon, and we just offered to take him as part of the deal.  The key part of the deal was to get rid of Iglesias' contract presumably, and we essentially took on Davidson as a project, to see if we can get anything out of him.

He could probably be DFA'd and stashed in AAA, I imagine, if he looks bad in ST.