Pro Scouting

[ThisismineScios]

I need some people smarter than me to chime in on something I’ve noticed this year that I’ve not before. I have not once in my life paid an ounce of attention to a pro scouting department or thought it valuable. This year, for the first time, I’m noticing major differences between us and other teams. And it says a lot about our struggles. Allow me to share and then feel free to annihilate my argument if it is idiotic. 

I believe two things are happening that are dramatically affecting our pitching and hitting. I’ll start with pitching. I believe that our pitch mix and sequencing is extremely predictable or at least easy to figure out. Case 1, Ohtani vs the Yankees. Lorenzen not too long later. Peguero. Straight tipping is the most egregious. But I look at several of Thor’s outings, and he’s been hit really hard after 1-2 times through (White Sox). Silseth has been pummeled in the same way. Sandoval against Houston—seemed like they knew what was coming in first two innings. He said he went off script and was lights out the next 3. Tepera against Hou threw 4 straight first pitch sliders. By the time it got to Altuve and Peña, they jumped on it first pitch and walked off. I feel our pitchers are being solved very easily, Ohtani the exception of course. Lorenzen has been fully solved, as he’s had a bad run now and it appears he’s no longer fooling any batters. Sandoval’s 4-seamer is awful but he keeps throwing it instead of the sinker (FanGraphs article). Wise had Detmers throwing a new Slider and tons of FBs, his worst pitch and he started walking guys. Really feel like our pitching dept at the pro level is way behind other teams and just plain bad. 

Hitting to me is simple: Jeremy Reed is not a good hitting coach. The league has learned how to pitch to Marsh, Stassi, and Walsh especially and he has not helped them adjust. It’s not a slump, it’s 100+ ABs. You’re telling me those 3 don’t have any possible tendencies or adjustments that can help them? Stassi was a top 8 hitting catcher. Marsh was patient. Walsh was aggressive. They’ve all plummeted and he can’t do anything? I think teams adjusted to our hot start and Reed has nothing to offer them. His response about the Astros pitchers told me what I needed: we told our guys look for it up in the zone and today look for it moving away. I think the job is too big for him. The pro scouting overall has been bad and the league has adjusted to our guys. We haven’t caught up with how to adjust. 

[Angel Oracle]

To me anyway, it’s clear this manager and coaching staff aren’t the answer, and you spelled out the whole reasoning.

The losing mentality also needs to be jettisoned.  It’s seemingly gotten to where they play not to lose.

It’s eventually a vicious cycle difficult to break.

They need the new manager and coaches to come in after the season, and let everyone know that going forward, it’s about winning and everyone being a part of it.

Wouldn’t hurt to have someone like Tony Robbins pay them a visit in ST.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[79CAAman]

Pro scouting?? I’m all in on this organization getting some. 

[cgoldangel]

It seems to me that the hitters just seem to have too much going on in their heads. They seem to swing at pitches way out of the zone guessing on a pitch and then let pitches go right down the middle obviously expecting something else. They swing at pitches that don’t look close from the time it leaves the pitcher’s hand. Is it too much information causing them to lock up? Or is the information they are getting not accurate? Are they just going all in off tendencies of a pitcher and not working on adjusting to pitches especially with two strikes? 

[ThisismineScios]

I’m on board with this 100%. I think a lot of people laugh at this, but in my 15 years of coaching I think this is really important. Winning is a mentality. That’s not a cliche. You set the standard and everyone else comes along. This franchise has a losing mentality. You saw it in the midst of the streak and you see it now. When they lose, it’s not a big deal and it’ll turn around. Nobody needs to panic but winning is not the expectation in this organization. I hope Perry is working to change that. 

[79CAAman]

I’m not getting the opportunity to watch too many games, may be a minor blessing, but from what I’m hearing on the radio, this team is not fundamentally sound. Why do we have coaches?  In yesterday’s game there was a throw in the later innings that was not thrown to the cutoff man and allowed the opposing runner to get to third base. Stuff like this is commonplace with this team. Then there’s the strikeouts. Does Reed work with this team?  Stuff like this wouldn’t be tolerated in football, changes would be made.  Your position-group doesn’t do the fundamentals??? YOU KIDDING ME?

[ThisismineScios]

This is part of it I think as well. When the strikeouts are out of control across the lineup, it’s a coaching problem. They aren’t prepared with a good scouting report. And other teams know exactly how to pitch our guys. 

I’d love to address coaching on another thread, but it’s bad. The cutoffs have been an issue all year. As has baserunning—some of the worst gaffes I’ve ever seen. Guys standing on the base when it’s hit to the warning track and then not caught. Ward getting tagged out because he was off the base as the BASERUNNING COACH was coaching first base. The whole staff is really bad. 

[79CAAman]

Stats as of today. Team batting strikeouts:

Angels           819

Atlanta          786

Pittsburgh    770

Maddon’s head rolls due to a 12 game  (at the time) losing streak  what gives here?

 

[cals]

58 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I’m on board with this 100%. I think a lot of people laugh at this, but in my 15 years of coaching I think this is really important. Winning is a mentality. That’s not a cliche. You set the standard and everyone else comes along. This franchise has a losing mentality. You saw it in the midst of the streak and you see it now. When they lose, it’s not a big deal and it’ll turn around. Nobody needs to panic but winning is not the expectation in this organization. I hope Perry is working to change that. 

[cals]

I think they should play a game drunk. They’d have more fun, take less shit and not overthink anything.

[Stradling]

29 minutes ago, 79CAAman said:

Stats as of today. Team batting strikeouts:

Angels           819

Atlanta          786

Pittsburgh    770

Maddon’s head rolls due to a 12 game  (at the time) losing streak  what gives here?

 

What’s supposed to give?  

[eligrba]

25 minutes ago, cals said:

I think they should play a game drunk. They’d have more fun, take less shit and not overthink anything.

It's not golf.

[79CAAman]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What’s supposed to give?  

How is it tolerated. How can this organization fire the manager yet the hitting coach is not canned?

[Stradling]

Just now, 79CAAman said:

How is it tolerated. How can this organization fire the manager yet the hitting coach is not canned?

And replace them with whom?  Who would take the job for 3 months? 

[Angel Oracle]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And replace them with whom?  Who would take the job for 3 months? 

But it does need to start the minute the off-season begins.

[79CAAman]

So why fire a World Series winning manager?

[Stradling]

23 minutes ago, 79CAAman said:

So why fire a World Series winning manager?

Because he didn’t value defense, because they had to put someone from the front office into the dugout to assure he used information given to him, because he was such an excellent communicator he made the decision to displace his generational player in CF while not talking to the generational player, oh and he lost 12 in a row and his solution to it was to get a Mohawk.  

[ThisismineScios]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Because he didn’t value defense, because they had to put someone from the front office into the dugout to assure he used information given to him, because he was such an excellent communicator he made the decision to displace his generational player in CF while not talking to the generational player, oh and he lost 12 in a row and his solution to it was to get a Mohawk.  

Hallelujah. All I’ve been able to do for the last 6 weeks (wife pregnant, days in hospital, caring for newborn) regarding the Angels is wonder what happened.  Joe was not a good coach. He just wasn’t, and he allowed so many bad habits to build up. He has never managed a bullpen well (Chicago or here), allows players to do what they want, and focuses more on fun than anything else. Very carefree and “ship will right itself mentality. Well after 6 weeks of fun, the league looked and adjusted and figured out how to attack the Angels. And the Angels could not adjust because they don’t have the coaching personnel to do so. They have a lot of bad habits Maddon allowed and now guys can’t fix what they need to. But to have a worse offense than the Pirates, Royals, Orioles, and A’s over the last 7 weeks means you are making zero adjustments. 

[halonatic13]

5 hours ago, cals said:

I think they should play a game drunk. They’d have more fun, take less shit and not overthink anything.

The Boston Red Sox did this and they won a WS.

[T.G.]

6 hours ago, 79CAAman said:

So why fire a World Series winning manager?

Scioscia?

[AngelsFaninGA]

7 hours ago, cals said:

I think they should play a game drunk. They’d have more fun, take less shit and not overthink anything.

Or better yet, acid. 

Dock Ellis: "The ball was small sometimes, the ball was large sometimes, sometimes I saw the catcher, sometimes I didn't. "

Hilarity ensues

[79CAAman]

2 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

Hallelujah. All I’ve been able to do for the last 6 weeks (wife pregnant, days in hospital, caring for newborn) regarding the Angels is wonder what happened.  Joe was not a good coach. He just wasn’t, and he allowed so many bad habits to build up. He has never managed a bullpen well (Chicago or here), allows players to do what they want, and focuses more on fun than anything else. Very carefree and “ship will right itself mentality. Well after 6 weeks of fun, the league looked and adjusted and figured out how to attack the Angels. And the Angels could not adjust because they don’t have the coaching personnel to do so. They have a lot of bad habits Maddon allowed and now guys can’t fix what they need to. But to have a worse offense than the Pirates, Royals, Orioles, and A’s over the last 7 weeks means you are making zero adjustments. 

Sincere congratulations on the newborn!  
 

Hard to understand how Maddon didn’t have success here considering what he did in Tampa and with the Cubs. Loyalty to bad coaches maybe?

[stormngt]

8 hours ago, 79CAAman said:

So why fire a World Series winning manager?

It wasn't the first time in Angeks history.

Off the top of my head I can think of three.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

Scioscia?

Going back awhile, Dick Williams.  He won three of them

[stormngt]

Just curious, could over emphasis on analytics screw with our batters heads?  Could that explain the strikeouts.  Are they told to look fir other pitchers?