2021-22 CBA Negotiation/Lockout Thread (DEAL IS AGREED TO)

[Lou]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

I do actually.  

Do you have a pool guy?

[Make Angels Great Again]

My house has a pool. When I moved in I learned what a gigantic pain in the ass they are to maintain. Holy shit.

troublefreepool.com made it so I didn't need a pool guy. Thanks TFP!

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Is your pool guy directly responsible for your revenue/income or the value of your house?  Again, your analogies are just the worst, man.

You don’t understand the point?

I don’t believe you.

I agree the performance of the players is at the center of the team success.  And the it’s the next group of players.  And the the next group.

These players are nothing without the established teams in mlb that give them the specific format to maximize their earning power.

They are hired talent.  They are not partners.

If the owners choose to make them partners, that’s fine with me.  That’s up to them.  But I am not going to view owners in a poor light if they want to keep the relationship as owner/hired talent.

 

 

[Dtwncbad]

12 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Does your pool guy make you money and attract crowds to your house?

 

 

 

If so, cals is looking for a new pool guy.

My pool guy does make my house worth more and makes my house more attractive for people to want to come here. Yes.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Maybe the players that are good with money can buy a team after retirement.

 

Then keep all the profits for themselves. That would be hilarious.

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You don’t understand the point?

I don’t believe you.

I agree the performance of the players is at the center of the team success.  And the it’s the next group of players.  And the the next group.

These players are nothing without the established teams in mlb that give them the specific format to maximize their earning power.

They are hired talent.  They are not partners.

If the owners choose to make them partners, that’s fine with me.  That’s up to them.  But I am not going to view owners in a poor light if they want to keep the relationship as owner/hired talent.

 

 

You have once again failed to make the point you think you're trying to make.  If people consistently don't understand what you're trying to say or think you're not making your points clearly, there's a darn good chance the fault lies with how you're communicating and not with your intended audience.

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Maybe the players that are good with money can buy a team after retirement.

 

Then keep all the profits for themselves. That would be hilarious.

 

Oh yeah! Forgot about this guy.

[Lou]

I understood it. 

[Dtwncbad]

13 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The arrangement is that they have a union that negotiates their partnership with the league.  And that’s largely why they have what they have.  Whether you like it or not. Whether the owners like it or not.  That’s the way it is.  
 

there’s no pool man union.  I think it would a great idea tho. 

You are completely wrong on the use of partnership in your first sentence.

The union negotiates the best labor deal they can in the ownership/hired labor relationship.

They are not partners right now.  This is the whole point.  The players would ultimately want the owners to open their books and then agree to set formulas to split up the money.

Other pro sports leagues arguably have partnerships with the players.  MLB does not.

 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

I understood it. 

Lol, of course.  Knew you'd chime in.

[Lou]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

Lol, of course.  Knew you'd chime in.

Well, it's a message board. That's kind of the point. 

Cant help it if you didn't understand his point. 

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Lou said:

Well, it's a message board. That's kind of the point. 

Cant help it if you didn't understand his point. 

His point was stupid and a bad analogy.  The situations aren't remotely comparable.

[Taylor]

Lou, dtwn, Blarg, and others are part of Billionaire Brigade. Defending billionaires at all costs, and sometimes using fallacious analogies along the way.

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

You have once again failed to make the point you think you're trying to make.  If people consistently don't understand what you're trying to say or think you're not making your points clearly, there's a darn good chance the fault lies with how you're communicating and not with your intended audience.

I am not a perfect communicator to be sure.

But I am pretty comfortable people generally get my point.  Many times people who disagree with a point will attack the perfect accuracy of an analogy as a deflecting debate tactic even though they absolutely get the point.

I have no problem with people who openly root for a partnership between the players and owners.

The entire point is many fully rational people do not expect owners to be interested in a partnership when they have the relationship they want now in the form of owner/hired talent.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

His point was stupid and a bad analogy.  The situations aren't remotely comparable.

"They are hired talent. They are not partners."

That's his point. It holds true.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Lou, dtwn, Blarg, and others are part of Billionaire Brigade. Defending billionaires at all costs, and sometimes using fallacious analogies along the way.

Wrong.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am not a perfect communicator to be sure.

But I am pretty comfortable people generally get my point.  Many times people who disagree with a point will attack the perfect accuracy of an analogy as a deflecting debate tactic even though they absolutely get the point.

I have no problem with people who openly root for a partnership between the players and owners.

The entire point is many fully rational people do not expect owners to be interested in a partnership when they have the relationship they want now in the form of owner/hired talent.

It's like if peanut butter were milk, and the convenience store was out of change when I went there to buy bread.

Players aren't partners.

(That's my caricature of some of your analogies...As I've said before when we've covered ground like this, just make your damn point and leave out the analogies.  It'll read cleaner.)

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

Lou, dtwn, Blarg, and others are part of Billionaire Brigade. Defending billionaires at all costs, and sometimes using fallacious analogies along the way.

Incorrect.  I don’t defend billionaires at all costs.

However I refuse to label billionaires as the enemy just because they are billionaires.  I don’t hate billionaires because they are billionaires.

I will defend the defendable and attack those that deserve to be attacked.  Their net worth isn’t part of deciding between the two.

You should try this.  It’s better.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

You are completely wrong on the use of partnership in your first sentence.

The union negotiates the best labor deal they can in the ownership/hired labor relationship.

They are not partners right now.  This is the whole point.  The players would ultimately want the owners to open their books and then agree to set formulas to split up the money.

Other pro sports leagues arguably have partnerships with the players.  MLB does not.

 

If you have to play this semantics game to push your point then this is a waste of time.  I mean it’s a waste of time anyway because this is fundamental world view difference that you and I have and we aren’t going to agree about anything.  
 

The league isn’t going to have a business without the players.  The players have their union that negotiates the whole range of topics contained within the CBA.  Gameplay issues and economic issues - all of it.  Whatever technical point you’re trying to make that doesn’t change the ostensible fact that it’s a partnership between the league and the players.  

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

6 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

It's like if peanut butter were milk, and the convenience store was out of change when I went there to buy bread.

I know exactly what you are saying here.  Except you can’t get to the convenience store because you have a screw in your tire.

We are vibing now.

[UndertheHalo]

Bring on the scabs.  See how that goes.  

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Bring on the scabs.  See how that goes.  

You want to be honest about this?

Short term it would be brutal.  Immediately they would be “scabs” because they wouldn’t be the best players (who would be sitting at home).

But in probably 5-6 years they wouldn’t be scabs.  They would be the next generation of the best players out there.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Make Angels Great Again]

13 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Lou, dtwn, Blarg, and others are part of Billionaire Brigade. Defending billionaires at all costs, and sometimes using fallacious analogies along the way.

 

Or maybe, just maybe...they're simply trying to be consistent in their opinion of how business relationships should work and think that just because these guys have more money, that doesn't mean they should be held to a different standard. I call that being consistent with your values.

 

Just because certain people have more money that doesn't make them the enemy, Taylor.

[tdawg87]

We're getting dangerously close to a debate on capitalism.

[mmc]