Hall vote, who you got?

[floplag]

I have 3 that i would vote yes on:
Jeter, Bonds. Clemens. 
Jeter, even though i think the fact that hes a Yankee is as much responsible as his actual play, but in the end deserving.
Bonds & Clemens are a yes and have been all along.  MLB cant pretend and entire era didnt happen when they were at best complicit in it all in my view.
Walker for me as well as a number of others are not people i would vote in nor do i think others would if the whole steroid thing about Bonds/Clemens wasnt clouding them.
Good, maybe even great players, but this isnt that hall. 

[Ariamus]

If I had a vote, I'd go with Jeter, Walker, and Schilling. I'm not done punishing Bonds and Clemens yet and they've got a couple more years of eligibility so they can wait.

That said...

My guess is that Jeter is the only one that gets the nod from the BWAA today. Ryan Thibodaux's Hall ballot tracker just crossed the 50% mark of revealed ballots this morning and Walker, Schilling, Clemens, and Bonds' numbers don't look good.

The current tally does have Schilling (78.1%) and Walker (83.7%) above the 75% mark needed but probably not by enough. Traditionally, the writers who reveal their ballots before the announcement tend to be more liberal with their votes. Those that don't are more conservative. With almost half of the ballots "still out there", it's hard to imagine Schilling and Walker's numbers improving. The same is true for the PED-boys and they're in much worse shape. Both Bonds (71.6%) and Clemens (70.7%) are already below the rate needed and the likelihood of that improving with the more traditional voters is low.

I do think Schilling gets in next year if he falls short today. I also think the "Modern Baseball" eras committee of the Hall of Fame will elect Walker the next time they have a ballot (December 2021 for 2022 induction I think) if he falls short in his last try on the writers' ballot. And I think Bonds and Clemens will be let in out of the doghouse by the Writers either next year or, more likely, in 2022 in their final year of eligibility.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Ariamus

[tdawg87]

Can I vote for Walker 20 times? 

[Ariamus]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Can I vote for Walker 20 times? 

I'd be impressed if you could vote for him once...

[Dtwncbad]

The voting is always contaminated now with things other than what is most important (that being is the player one of the greatest of all time).

Jeter—they probably want to orchestrate him going in alone.

Walker—definitely should be a HOFer but he will have to wait so the Jeter show can happen on its own.

Schilling—gotta make him squirm because he is outspoken on politics not popular with some.

Bonds and Clemens—gotta punish them personally for their involvement in what defined the era (how players personally FEEL about being inducted or not should never be a factor).

[Hubs]

Jeter, Walker, Bonds, Kent, Clemens.

Jeter because he was above average for 20 years. Maybe not ever the best SS of his era, but the longevity means something. Walker deserves to be the Rockies first HOF. He was consistently all-star level for a decade plus. Bonds is the best hitter I've ever seen before he took HGH, still a HOF. Kent was also MVP level for a few years while being above average the rest of the time at a position not known really for offense. Clemens won multiple Cy Youngs, and likely wasn't on roids his entire career.

Schilling doesn't quite make it for me. He wasn't quite there in his early years, and his later years were great...but his stupid fake bloody sock and Nazi obsession and I think it's a bad look.

Oh and of course, Pete Rose. Did he bet on baseball, yes. Is he a giant baby about the whole thing? Yes. Is he still one of the best hitters of all time? Yes.

 

[AngelStew43]

Jeter.  Because it is Jeter, Walker will come up just short.  Its a shame, too, because if Edgar is in, and Harold Baines is in, then Walker should definitely be in.  

And, since that box is now open, how come no love for Don Baylor?  As a DH, a clubhouse leader, an MVP, he was incredible.  

[nate]

Jeter and Walker are the only ones I have

[T.G.]

Jeter, Walker, Schilling, and Kent

[Claude]

Jeter

[Adam]

Just Figgy for me

[Pancake Bear]

Walker and Schilling both better than Jeter. Should be in without queston. Rolen is also an easy yes for me. I vote for Clemens and Bonds. 

Kent, Wagner, and Vizquel are all no’s from me. Jones is *really* close. 

So, I have:

Walker

Schilling

Jeter

Rolen

Bonds

Clemens

[Ariamus]

40 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

The voting is always contaminated now with things other than what is most important (that being is the player one of the greatest of all time). - I certainly agree that the writers (eras committee members for that matter) sometimes have personal agendas that cloud how they should vote. There's really not much that can be done about that short of setting hard and fast rules in the voting process that prevent such activity.

Jeter—they probably want to orchestrate him going in alone. - I don't know that I go full-on collusion as far as this goes. That's what it would take for 400+ writers to orchestrate such a thing. Sure, many of them probably talk to each other but something of this magnitude would be hard to accomplish. Besides, it is already the case that Jeter's not getting in alone. Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons were elected by the Modern Era of Baseball Hall of Fame committee. Miller will obviously not be on the dais with Jeter but Simmons most certainly will.

Walker—definitely should be a HOFer but he will have to wait so the Jeter show can happen on its own. - see above

Schilling—gotta make him squirm because he is outspoken on politics not popular with some. - Schilling has definitely been punished for his personal beliefs and this is total horseshit. I happen to disagree with him on most things but that doesn't matter. His Hall candidacy should be based solely on what he did on the field and that's never been in question as being Hall-worthy.

Bonds and Clemens—gotta punish them personally for their involvement in what defined the era (how players personally FEEL about being inducted or not should never be a factor). - I do believe the writers will eventually elect Bonds and Clemens. For sure, they have been punished because of their parts in the PEDs era. But the reality is that Bonds definitely and Clemens probably were already Hall of Famers before it is widely believed they started juicing. That's what pisses me off most about both of them, especially Bonds. They cheated and they didn't need to.

Some of my thoughts are inline above in red text.

[Tank]

i find it curious that bonds and clemens have support, but not sosa, palmeiro or macgwire.

[T.G.]

I find it interesting that guys who would vote for PED users want to punish Walker for playing in Colorado because of the advantage he received from playing there.

What's really interesting is that we question everything now.  HOF voting, the strike zone, contracts, etc. We baseball fans are sort of a miserable bunch.

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, Tank said:

i find it curious that bonds and clemens have support, but not sosa, palmeiro or macgwire.

Speaking only for myself there, i dont see them as being on the same level.
For me those were all good/great players, just not hall of fame worthy for various reasons.  Not enough longevity, too many spikes and valleys, outlying years, etc... Bonds and Clemens were never not good or never not among the best thruout their careers, cant say that for the others. 

[Ariamus]

45 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Schilling doesn't quite make it for me. He wasn't quite there in his early years, and his later years were great...but his stupid fake bloody sock and Nazi obsession and I think it's a bad look.

Curt Schilling has a career bWAR of 79.5, good enough for 26th all-time among Starting Pitchers. He's also 28th in the Jaffe system. There's been 6,000 or more starting (exclusively so) pitchers in MLB history. That puts him in the top half of the top percent, all-time. And those levels hold all throughout his statistical record.

The most impressive thing to me about Schilling, besides the postseason record of course, is how great his control was considering he was a power pitcher. He's ranked 15th all time in strikeouts and 36th in Ks per 9 (again, easily to 1%). So, it's amazing that he's 7th all-time in Ks to BBs ratio.

In short, Schilling may be a douchebag and an asshole but that doesn't matter. He's in the top 1% of the best of the best (remember, I'm only counting MLB pitchers, never mind the tens of thousands that played and never made it) of all practitioners of his craft. That's a Hall of Famer to me.

[m0nkey]

Bonds, Clemens, Jeter, Rolen, Schilling, Wagner, Walker

[Ariamus]

57 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

And, since that box is now open, how come no love for Don Baylor?  As a DH, a clubhouse leader, an MVP, he was incredible.  

Baines' election, controversial as it was, does not necessarily open the door for Baylor. I know everyone loves Don; I do too. But he was not the hitter that Baines was. His numbers all trail Baines by significant margins like 20 points in batting average, 50 or so home runs, etc.

[kevinb]

Clemens, Jeter, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Manny, Schilling, Walker, Rolen. 

 

[Ariamus]

20 minutes ago, Tank said:

i find it curious that bonds and clemens have support, but not sosa, palmeiro or macgwire.

Bonds definitely and Clemens probably as well were both sure-bets for eventual Hall induction even before it is widely believed they started juicing (97 for Clemens and 99-00 for Bonds).

The same can't be said for Sosa, Palmiero, or even McGwire.

[Ariamus]

13 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I find it interesting that guys who would vote for PED users want to punish Walker for playing in Colorado because of the advantage he received from playing there.

People that cite the Colorado numbers for Walker forget how great he was in Montreal. There's a strong case to be made that, when MLB nearly lost its mind with 94-95 work stoppage, the best Center Fielders in the AL and NL were Ken Griffey Jr. and Larry Walker respectively.

[T.G.]

7 minutes ago, Ariamus said:

...when MLB nearly lost its mind with 94-95 work stoppage, the best Center Fielders in the AL and NL were Ken Griffey Jr. and Larry Walker respectively.

Larry Walker played a total of 4 games in CF in Montreal, in 1991 no less.  But I'm sure he was amazing in those four games.

[Ariamus]

23 minutes ago, True Grich said:

32 minutes ago, Ariamus said:

...when MLB nearly lost its mind with 94-95 work stoppage, the best Center Fielders in the AL and NL were Ken Griffey Jr. and Larry Walker respectively.

Larry Walker played a total of 4 games in CF in Montreal, in 1991 no less.  But I'm sure he was amazing in those four games.

Apologies...I was having a similar discussion a couple of days back re: Center Fielders involving Junior and Andruw Jones and I conflated the two arguments.

My overall point that Larry Walker was already probably the best right fielder in the NL before he left the Expos still stands though.

[failos]

Derek Fisher