Maddon on Ohtani

[ScottT]

Just now, Stradling said:

Right it is 162 games and they play 6 days a week.  It has its own grind.  

Nobody is talking about him playing  162 games

[Stradling]

Just now, ScottT said:

Nobody is talking about him playing  162 games

Well no one is talking about him playing other sports but you brought that up.

[ScottT]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Well no one is talking about him playing other sports but you brought that up.

Good grief.

How much do you miss Claude?

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

After Maddon said this at the winter meetings, Eppler sort of doused water on it with something like “Joe is very enthusiastic but we are a long way from having this discussion.”

I think it’s fair to wonder if Ohtani can do more eventually, but it’s going to be gradual. They are going to start conservatively and maybe see as they go along how much they can push the envelope. 
 

It’s not realistic to have this conversation in the winter after he just finished TJ rehab. He has to actually go out and play and see what happens, and then they can decide when he’s ready for more. 

A good target for 2020 would be one pitching start and four DH starts per week. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Lou]

over the last year, Alex Wood has pitched 35.2 innings more than Ohtani.

[ScottT]

I suggested 120-140.  And I wouldn't rule out hitting and pitching the same day.  Nor would I rule out the day before or after later in the season. Or when it makes sense.  Maybe pinch hitting on occasion.

Does not seem outrageous.

I guess the crew that's online today is cranky.

[ScottT]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Are people also ignoring that he’s only pitched some 51 innings over the past two years?
A good target for 2020 would be one pitching start and four DH starts per week. 

Are people?

If so, I dont see them.

I dont see one person expecting 180 innings. Even 160.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

over the last year, Alex Wood has pitched 35.2 innings more than Ohtani.

Point taken, except that Wood did pitch 304 total innings in 2017-18.

I would still look for him to give them 150 innings, if signing him.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, ScottT said:

Are people?

If so, I dont see them.

I dont see one person expecting 180 innings. Even 160.

I did edit the post to remove the first sentence.  One pitching start per week would probably = around 130 innings.

[ScottT]

One per week times 5 innings is 132.5

One per week times 6 innings is 159.

[Stradling]

120 or so innings.  Also I’d have him pinch hit.  I would also be fine with him hitting the day after when it being late in the season and it makes sense.  

[Lou]

he should pitch 142 innings. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

120 or so innings.  Also I’d have him pinch hit.  I would also be fine with him hitting the day after when it being late in the season and it makes sense.  

The day after is much more likely to happen than the day before. If he plays the day before you could really get in a jam finding a starter the next day if he gets hurt. 

[Pancake Bear]

Back when Ohtani first came over, there was an article out asking different pitchers whether it was feasible to be a two way player. Some expressed skepticism, saying it was hard enough on the body pitching every five days, they couldn’t imagine hitting three days a week also. 

But, hey, the guys on here who work 9-5 jobs think they’re babying him, so clearly we should listen to their expertise.

[ScottT]

28 minutes ago, Stradling said:

120 or so innings.  Also I’d have him pinch hit.  I would also be fine with him hitting the day after when it being late in the season and it makes sense.  

So, we basically agree.

Wtf just happened 

[ScottT]

5 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

But, hey, the guys on here who work 9-5 jobs think they’re babying him, so clearly we should listen to their expertise.

Reading comprehension isnt your strength. That's ok

[Pancake Bear]

35 minutes ago, ScottT said:

Reading comprehension isnt your strength. That's ok

Did I address you or did you just assume I was talking about you?

[Angelsjunky]

8 hours ago, Stradling said:

The whole premise that they are babying him is stupid.  He’s basically doing twice what everyone else is doing but since they choose to not ask him do it six days a week they are babying him.  Bullshit. 

I don't really agree on this. Hitting and pitching are quite different - not only do they use different muscles and tendons, with widely different possible injuries. Hitting injuries almost always come from either  playing the field or baserunning. If Ohtani is DHing, that makes baserunning as the only likely way to get injured, and that can be minimized by not having him steal. So in that regard, I do think it is "babying"  him not to have him hit almost half the time.

On average they play a bit more than six days a week. I think it is something like three off days a month, but let's go with six days a week. Ohtani pitches on Sunday and  can also hit, at least for the 5-6 innings he'll pitch. For the other five games, he misses the day before but can theoretically hit the other four. That would mean that he  hits 5 out of 6 games, one of those being partial, which is 135 games a year. Maybe drop a few games for off days and you get 125-130 games, which would probably get him to 500+ PA.

Maybe he doesn't do that in 2020, but ideally something like this over the next few years:

2020:  20-22 starts (100-120 IP), 400-450 PA.

2021: 24-25 starts (130-150 IP), 450-500 PA.

2022: 25-28 starts (150-180 IP), 500-550 PA.

 

 

[Stradling]

Fatigued legs could alter mechanics leading to other injuries. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, ScottT said:

Its borderline absurd that it has taken this long for players be attempting to be a hitter and pitcher

Im sure a million guys could have done it. I thinks its more that arms are so valuable that teams for decades have figured the risk wasnt worth it.

And due to that, pitchers stop trying to hit early on in their career.... like as soon as theyre drafted.

[Angelsjunky]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Fatigued legs could alter mechanics leading to other injuries. 

Yeah, but how does a position player fatigue their legs? Running in the field, hard baserunning. I don't think a professional athlete should get all that fatigued running to 1st a few times, and occasionally jogging around the bases.

[Angelsjunky]

Anyhow, once Ohtani comes out of a game does the pitcher have to continue hitting or can they switch to a DH? 

If the former, Jared Walsh is  going to be a very useful player to have on the roster.

[Angelsjunky]

10 minutes ago, RBM said:

I believe they lose the DH when Ohtani bats. You would probably see a double switch or a PH when Ohtani comes out of a game. It's essentially NL baseball except you would have your pitcher batting 4th or 5th instead of 9th.

When you let that set in it's another reminder how amazing Ohtani's potential is.

 

That makes me think that they should consider a regular Ohtani-Walsh tandem. I could see a typical game being Ohtani pitching 5-6 innings, Walsh ~2, then a one inning closer. You could theoretically avoid any pitcher hitting other than Ohtani and Walsh.

[Lazorko Saves]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If he plays the day before you could really get in a jam finding a starter the next day if he gets hurt. 

Yes, and remember when you're starting tomorrow, you're charting pitches in today's game.  This isn't just a pointless activity.  If you're facing the same team tomorrow you're analyzing the opposing hitters and thinking about how you'll pitch them yourself tomorrow.

[Jeff Fletcher]

11 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Yes, and remember when you're starting tomorrow, you're charting pitches in today's game.

They don’t do that in the major leagues. I don’t think they have in a very long time.