Angels considering Mike Butcher for pitching coach

[Docwaukee]

 

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

because, per the board,  when he was here our pitching "sucked" and pitchers didn't improve. 

but is he a good communicator?  

[T.G.]

There goes the spin rate of the pitching staff....

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

is everyone going to hate him again?

Only if Eppler brings in a bunch of scrubs to pitch and they suck.

 

[Chuck]

34 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

 

but is he a good communicator?  

This!

All I know is Corbin, Greinke and others didn't get worse after Butcher came on board with the Diamondbacks. 

One could argue, they got better... and in Greinke's case with lower velo, he got a lot better. 

Honestly, as long as Butcher doesn't teach a dog new tricks I'm good and I think the Angels will be fine. 

One thing that I noticed in White is he never seemed to calm our pitchers down when he had to go to the mound and instead, felt like he was jamming into their heads "REMEMBER THE GRAPHS, CHARTS, VIDEO AND SPINS I TAUGHT YOU PREVIOUSLY, COME ON, LET'S GET IT DONE". While Butcher and Black had a more calming presence on the mound to settle our guys down when shit was starting to hit the fan. 

[failos]

He's better than the clowns we've had

[Second Base]

[Angelsfan1984]

Damnit, unless that guy brings Robby Ray with him, he can go kick rocks.

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

This!

All I know is Corbin, Greinke and others didn't get worse after Butcher came on board with the Diamondbacks. 

One could argue, they got better... and in Greinke's case with lower velo, he got a lot better. 

Honestly, as long as Butcher doesn't teach a dog new tricks I'm good and I think the Angels will be fine. 

One thing that I noticed in White is he never seemed to calm our pitchers down when he had to go to the mound and instead, felt like he was jamming into their heads "REMEMBER THE GRAPHS, CHARTS, VIDEO AND SPINS I TAUGHT YOU PREVIOUSLY, COME ON, LET'S GET IT DONE". While Butcher and Black had a more calming presence on the mound to settle our guys down when shit was starting to hit the fan. 

or he went out there and spouted to mumbo jumbo about getting more swerve out of your swank and they pitcher was shaking his head up and down while thinking 'WTF is he talking about?'

That's probably a bit unfair to White actually to be honest.  It didn't seem like he did much to help and while I would expect some mild improvements for various individuals with a new voice around, but the majority of struggles were a combo of a lack of experience or talent or both.  

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

or he went out there and spouted to mumbo jumbo about getting more swerve out of your swank and they pitcher was shaking his head up and down while thinking 'WTF is he talking about?'

That's probably a bit unfair to White actually to be honest.  It didn't seem like he did much to help and while I would expect some mild improvements for various individuals with a new voice around, but the majority of struggles were a combo of a lack of experience or talent or both.  

True, but even you said many times and I concurred that our pitchers got significantly worse in 2019 than the previous year when we had Charles Nagy who I forgot to mention, another with a calming presence on the mound. 

Also, all of our former pitching coaches actually pitched in the big leagues. 

I also wonder if our staff of pitchers had deaf ears to White's mumbo jumbo because they didn't respect him because he didn't pitch an inning in the big leagues. 

[Broad Street]

At least he doesn’t think that walks are a false stat. 

[Chris]

I think Butcher was ok when he was here.  He did get into a verbal cussing match with Josh Donaldson.  Also, I think he leaned heavily towards Sosh in the Sosh vs. Dipoto face off.  In the end I think he was just a scapegoat.  Sosh got another chance to stay on, with a refreshed coaching staff.  Most of the coaches had to go, with all the losing.

I'd be ok with any of Callaway, Searage, Hickey, Butcher, etc.

 

Time for a Butch Hatch job?

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

True, but even you said many times and I concurred that our pitchers got significantly worse in 2019 than the previous year when we had Charles Nagy who I forgot to mention, another with a calming presence on the mound. 

Also, all of our former pitching coaches actually pitched in the big leagues. 

I also wonder if our staff of pitchers had deaf ears to White's mumbo jumbo because they didn't respect him because he didn't pitch an inning in the big leagues. 

I think he just talked over their heads and they were left to their own devices.  At least most of them.  Even if it's not a guy with major league experience, they all have to be speaking the same language.  I was not impressed with the way it all played out.  Frankly, both Ausmus and Paul were former catchers and should have been able to translate so I think part of the issue went beyond White's lack of communication.  I didn't like pitch sequencing or even that they seemed to abandon certain things that might work better for certain guys.  It almost felt a bit cookie cutter if you will.  That's not just on the pitching coach but speaks to the philosophy.  

I also got the sense (from my own probably BS anecdotal observations) that the 30,000 foot view was the primary focus where as the in game or between start minor mechanical adjustments that we've seen guys make just wasn't happening.  

At the end of the day, White got fired which means they didn't think he was doing his job well so that tells us all we need to know.  

[winhalos]

4 hours ago, True Grich said:

Meanwhile...

Waiting by his phone...

 

 

Yes sir! he'll make Trout a better hitter! LOL! that's what he told me at the bar down on 4th street

[fan_since79]

5 hours ago, Lou said:

is everyone going to hate him again?

Butcher doesn't care. He sleeps like a baby.

 

[ScottT]

I'd pass...

on Aunt Chiladas

[Rico]

What is Torii Hunter up to these days?  Would he have interest in a hitting/bench coach type role?  I feel like he would just be a great guy to have around the ballclub.  

[Pancake Bear]

I find it hard to believe Butcher would be coming back. He was the first guy gone when Eppler signed on. I seem to remember rumors that it wasn't Eppler's move, but someone above him that didn't want Butcher back. If, for instance, it was Arte who didn't like Butch, I don't see how that has changed a few years down the road.

Dunno where Mike Di got the rumor from, but this just seems strange and difficult to believe.

[TurbosLady9493]

Wasn't Butcher one of the first people let go by Billy? Or was that Hatcher? My point is if hes been fired Im pretty sure that ship has sailed. I don't see any of Scoiscia guys coming back

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, TurbosLady9493 said:

Wasn't Butcher one of the first people let go by Billy? Or was that Hatcher? My point is if hes been fired Im pretty sure that ship has sailed. I don't see any of Scoiscia guys coming back

Butcher was Maddon's pitching coach before he left Tampa to go to the Cubs. He's familiar with him and likes him. 

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Butcher was Maddon's pitching coach before he left Tampa to go to the Cubs. He's familiar with him and likes him. 

Would still be strange to hire a guy the Angels literally just fired.

[Stradling]

9 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

I find it hard to believe Butcher would be coming back. He was the first guy gone when Eppler signed on. I seem to remember rumors that it wasn't Eppler's move, but someone above him that didn't want Butcher back. If, for instance, it was Arte who didn't like Butch, I don't see how that has changed a few years down the road.

Dunno where Mike Di got the rumor from, but this just seems strange and difficult to believe.

That’s not what happened. 

[Inside Pitch]

21 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think he just talked over their heads and they were left to their own devices.  At least most of them.  Even if it's not a guy with major league experience, they all have to be speaking the same language.  I was not impressed with the way it all played out.  Frankly, both Ausmus and Paul were former catchers and should have been able to translate so I think part of the issue went beyond White's lack of communication.  I didn't like pitch sequencing or even that they seemed to abandon certain things that might work better for certain guys.  It almost felt a bit cookie cutter if you will.  That's not just on the pitching coach but speaks to the philosophy.  

I also got the sense (from my own probably BS anecdotal observations) that the 30,000 foot view was the primary focus where as the in game or between start minor mechanical adjustments that we've seen guys make just wasn't happening.  

At the end of the day, White got fired which means they didn't think he was doing his job well so that tells us all we need to know.  

White needed a translator....  He should have been an assistant and not the primary pitching coach.

[T.G.]

19 hours ago, ScottT said:

I'd pass...

on Aunt Chiladas

I'm more of a Don & Charlie's guy myself.

[eligrba4ever]

HIRE HATCHER!!! HIRE HATCHER!!! HIRE HATCHER!!!

LOL.

[Angel Oracle]

22 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think he just talked over their heads and they were left to their own devices.  At least most of them.  Even if it's not a guy with major league experience, they all have to be speaking the same language.  I was not impressed with the way it all played out.  Frankly, both Ausmus and Paul were former catchers and should have been able to translate so I think part of the issue went beyond White's lack of communication.  I didn't like pitch sequencing or even that they seemed to abandon certain things that might work better for certain guys.  It almost felt a bit cookie cutter if you will.  That's not just on the pitching coach but speaks to the philosophy.  

I also got the sense (from my own probably BS anecdotal observations) that the 30,000 foot view was the primary focus where as the in game or between start minor mechanical adjustments that we've seen guys make just wasn't happening.  

At the end of the day, White got fired which means they didn't think he was doing his job well so that tells us all we need to know.  

The many hits on 0-2 counts, is what bugged me the most.