Partnering with Cleveland on a trade...

[Second Base]

The Indians rotation is deep, the farm is relatively bare, they need to offload a contract in order to afford extending their current pitchers....it sounds like the Angels are perfect trade partners.

Most believe Cleveland will sell high on Trevor Bauer following his breakout season. Bauer has two years of control left on his contract and has expressed no desire in signing an extension. Ironically, Bauer is a local product (UCLA), and our top pitching prospect, Griffin Canning (also a UCLA product) shares many of Bauer's similarities in arsenal, build, preparation and cerebral approach to pitching.

The Indians are looking to offload the 17 million owed to left handed hitting 2B/RF Jason Kipnis as well, which could not only fill a need, but also knock the asking price down to a level the Angels could meet.

Imagine for a second, filling the need atop the Angels rotation and for an IF/OF that just so happens to be left handed with a track record of success, and it costing the Angels neither Jo Adell or Griffin Canning.

Let's make a deal.

[ukyah]

there's no way the indians dump bauer just to offload a one year contract on an above average player who had an average year. pitching is expensive in this market, bauer can be had, but not cheaply. the dude had a big time year, 2.21 era/1.08 whip over 175 innings.

[arch stanton]

Kipnis has a sub 90 OPS+ for 2 years running now. Are we sure he can still hit?

[gurn67]

1 hour ago, arch stanton said:

Are we sure he can still hit?

Since when has that ever stopped the Angels from acquiring a "hitter"?

[TroutField]

2 hours ago, ukyah said:

there's no way the indians dump bauer just to offload a one year contract on an above average player who had an average year. pitching is expensive in this market, bauer can be had, but not cheaply. the dude had a big time year, 2.21 era/1.08 whip over 175 innings.

There’s some rumors that the Indians are willing to let one of Bauer/Carrasco/Kluber go for a smaller asking price if they attach Kipnis being as it’s mostly a sunken cost. The good thing would be that the Angels have the infield depth to cover 2nd when Kipnis sucks. 

 

I dont see it happening but that’s what Mlbtraderumors posted earlier today.

[totdprods]

Absolutely interested in a SP+Kipnis deal. 

Kipnis’ offense has obviously declined, but there’s one big advantage he brings defensively in that he also can serve as the back-up CF. He isn’t an ideal CF solution, but by having him (and likely Calhoun, Upton and/or Fletcher) as MLB depth for that position, it gives you the opportunity to look for a more offensively-oriented corner outfielder/infielder to round out the bench, which would balance out what Kipnis lacks.

Your bench could be the back-up catcher, La Stella, David Fletcher, and someone like Matt Davidson, with Kipnis the starting 2B.  That’s a great blend of versatility and skills. 

Still think Gomes would have been a good target too.

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Absolutely interested in a SP+Kipnis deal. 

Kipnis’ offense has obviously declined, but there’s one big advantage he brings defensively in that he also can serve as the back-up CF. He isn’t an ideal CF solution, but by having him (and likely Calhoun, Upton and/or Fletcher) as MLB depth for that position, it gives you the opportunity to look for a more offensively-oriented corner outfielder/infielder to round out the bench, which would balance out what Kipnis lacks.

Your bench could be the back-up catcher, La Stella, David Fletcher, and someone like Matt Davidson, with Kipnis the starting 2B.  That’s a great blend of versatility and skills. 

Still think Gomes would have been a good target too.

Makes some sense...overpay Kipnis if it gets you Bauer....overpaid but maybe functional in how we could use him....maybe even see if he could play some 1b....I might also consider Kipnis in the OF and trade Calhoun to the DBacks for Greinke....that would straighten out the SP....but blow the payroll up for sure....

[Second Base]

It's not like the Angels would get Trevor Bauer for nothing.  He's a legitimate front of the rotation starter, if he keeps up what he did last year, which everything suggests he should.  Jason Kipnis would just soften the blow, that's all.  I think this sort of deal would still require Brandon Marsh, Jose Suarez and Jose Soriano.....

But even at that price, the benefits would be numerous....

First, our team would immediately get a lot better.  Bauer at the top of the rotation fixes a lot of things, and Kipnis is a better offensive option than our current 2B and RF. It really helps in 2020, because Ohtani, Bauer and Canning at the top of that rotation is absolutely insane.  Second, it gives Bauer a chance to see what it's like playing for the Angels.  If he enjoys it, he may be more apt to sign an extension.  Third, even if he goes, you recoup some of the price you paid in draft pick compensation. Fourth, we don't have to pay Adell or Canning, so it doesn't strip the farm.  Sixth, Bauer's contract follows the current timeline of many in the organization, so if the worst happens, it doesn't hurt the Angels longterm. 

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

It's not like the Angels would get Trevor Bauer for nothing.  He's a legitimate front of the rotation starter, if he keeps up what he did last year, which everything suggests he should.  Jason Kipnis would just soften the blow, that's all.  I think this sort of deal would still require Brandon Marsh, Jose Suarez and Jose Soriano.....

Done. I’d even thrown in a fourth.

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Done. I’d even thrown in a fourth.

Well, keep in mind you're still taking on a considerable amount of money in conjunction with the prospects, and it's only for two years.  Plus it softens the blow for Cleveland with Suarez,  He's no Bauer, but if they need innings, he can fill those.  What they really need are OF prospects.

[floplag]

i dont think taking on a bad contract is feasible for us due to limited budget, especially not at a position we dont have a need for such as middle infield.   A SP and a 2B for 20 mil is very different than 2 SP.  WE have between 30-40 M in total to spend, i cant see them wasted a quarter of that on something we dont need. 

[TroutField]

11 minutes ago, floplag said:

i dont think taking on a bad contract is feasible for us due to limited budget, especially not at a position we dont have a need for such as middle infield.   A SP and a 2B for 20 mil is very different than 2 SP.  WE have between 30-40 M in total to spend, i cant see them wasted a quarter of that on something we dont need. 

The thing is you can’t get quality SP this offseason without considerable risk, so this could be a way to get a TORP without decimating the farm or making a 5-6 year commitment. 

 

Bauer is leaps and bounds better than Keuchel, Happ, etc., And Eovaldi has already had 2 TJ surgeries, and always pitches worse than his FIP. And who knows maybe a change of scenery helps Kipnis hit again. 

 

It wont happen but it could make some sort of sense. 

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

i dont think taking on a bad contract is feasible for us due to limited budget, especially not at a position we dont have a need for such as middle infield.   A SP and a 2B for 20 mil is very different than 2 SP.  WE have between 30-40 M in total to spend, i cant see them wasted a quarter of that on something we dont need. 

Basically, Bauer and Kipnis together would cost 23 million in 2019.  Right now, the angels budget is 40 million.  That leaves 23 million left to work with, and one pitcher and one catcher to sign, that's it. If the Angels bring in a Chirinos level catcher, you're probably looking at around 6-7 million on that one acquisition. So that would leave the Angels with 16-17 million left to spend on 2019.  That would probably be enough to bring in a J.A. Happ or Nate Eovaldi level starter.  And if the Angels rotation in 2019 ends up being Trevor Bauer, J.A. Happ, Tyler Skaggs, Andrew Heaney and Jaime Barria with Canning, Pena, and Sandoval all waiting in the wings, then I think the Angels would surprise a few teams and end up contending for a Wild Card. 

More importantly, that opens up the potential for an Ohtani, Bauer, Happ, Canning, Heaney rotation in 2020, and if you can't win with that rotation, you can't win at all.  That would be absolutely insane. 

So a deal of this sort could end up making a lot of sense for both sides.  IT obviously gives the Angels what they need and it offers the Indians rotation depth in Suarez, the upside OF prospect in AA or higher that they need, and another high upside pitcher that they could develop.  Lots of fans seem to forget just how valuable Jose Soriano is in scouting and front office circles.  Last offseason he was 18 years old, and with his frame, and his stuff, most scouts agreed that had he been born American, Soriano would've gone in the top half of the first round.  He had a rough go of it last year, but no one is worried.  Jose Soriano is going to be a name you'll hear mentioned among the top 100 prospects in the future. 

[TroutField]

If the prospect cost was something like Scotty threw out there than I would be for it. It’s fair since we are taking on the Kipnis money. We would probably need to unload Calhoun at that point and sign and OF to a smaller deal 

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, TroutField said:

The thing is you can’t get quality SP this offseason without considerable risk, so this could be a way to get a TORP without decimating the farm or making a 5-6 year commitment. 

 

Bauer is leaps and bounds better than Keuchel, Happ, etc., And Eovaldi has already had 2 TJ surgeries, and always pitches worse than his FIP. And who knows maybe a change of scenery helps Kipnis hit again. 

 

It wont happen but it could make some sort of sense. 

just means Bauer is due for his TJ    Seriously though there is no such thing as no risk.

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Basically, Bauer and Kipnis together would cost 23 million in 2019.  Right now, the angels budget is 40 million.  That leaves 23 million left to work with, and one pitcher and one catcher to sign, that's it. If the Angels bring in a Chirinos level catcher, you're probably looking at around 6-7 million on that one acquisition. So that would leave the Angels with 16-17 million left to spend on 2019.  That would probably be enough to bring in a J.A. Happ or Nate Eovaldi level starter.  And if the Angels rotation in 2019 ends up being Trevor Bauer, J.A. Happ, Tyler Skaggs, Andrew Heaney and Jaime Barria with Canning, Pena, and Sandoval all waiting in the wings, then I think the Angels would surprise a few teams and end up contending for a Wild Card. 

More importantly, that opens up the potential for an Ohtani, Bauer, Happ, Canning, Heaney rotation in 2020, and if you can't win with that rotation, you can't win at all.  That would be absolutely insane. 

So a deal of this sort could end up making a lot of sense for both sides.  IT obviously gives the Angels what they need and it offers the Indians rotation depth in Suarez, the upside OF prospect in AA or higher that they need, and another high upside pitcher that they could develop.  Lots of fans seem to forget just how valuable Jose Soriano is in scouting and front office circles.  Last offseason he was 18 years old, and with his frame, and his stuff, most scouts agreed that had he been born American, Soriano would've gone in the top half of the first round.  He had a rough go of it last year, but no one is worried.  Jose Soriano is going to be a name you'll hear mentioned among the top 100 prospects in the future. 

obviously thats the upside of many of the trades being floated, it leaves more money elsewhere.  I see the upside to it pitching wise, im just not sure i see it offensively.  someone has to hit the ball at some point to win ballgames.

[TroutField]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

just means Bauer is due for his TJ    Seriously though there is no such thing as no risk.

He’s in a pretty crazy exercise and motion routine geared to keep him healthy. I’ve watched a few videos about it, you should check it out. 

[floplag]

8 minutes ago, TroutField said:

He’s in a pretty crazy exercise and motion routine geared to keep him healthy. I’ve watched a few videos about it, you should check it out. 

ive seen and heard the interview the other day on mlb network, it was quite interesting.  
Dont get me wrong im not against it, im just not sure i would allocate the funds that way in regard to Kipnis.   
The main reason i  would do it is that he can also provide backup for RF in case that goes south, and im fairly certain he could also pick up a 1B glove.   In that sense it isnt a bad idea but he would have to earn the playing time out of ST with the understanding that the only thing hes guaranteed is a utility role till he earns more.

[GA16]

The Angels recently hired 3 coaches from Driveline, which Bauer is really big on. So you have to think the FO is very interested in him. 

With all being said, it really seems like we need to unload Calhoun's $10M to make a deal like this happen.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Bauer sure!

Kipshit nah!

Prost~

[Second Base]

Speaking of little birdies @Chuckster70 One little birdie believes Trevor Bauer is as likely to pitch for the Angels next season, as he is to pitch for the Indians. Says that when a team wants and needs a pitcher as much as the Angels and Bauer, and have the means to acquire, nothing will stand in the way.

[totdprods]

35 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Speaking of little birdies @Chuckster70 One little birdie believes Trevor Bauer is as likely to pitch for the Angels next season, as he is to pitch for the Indians. Says that when a team wants and needs a pitcher as much as the Angels and Bauer, and have the means to acquire, nothing will stand in the way.

Bauer and Machado would be a pretty ridiculous offseason.

[jessecrall]

Considering that Bauer would likely cost as much in prospect capital as Realmuto (both are 27 year olds coming of career years with 2 years of team control remaining), I'd rather have JT. He's less of an injury risk, there are more FA starters than catchers available and he doesn't leave streaks of douchery everywhere he goes.

[Pancake Bear]

If you can get Bauer without losing Adell and too many top ten guys in the system, I think you gotta do it. Any guesses how much Cleveland asks for on just Bauer?

[floplag]

i apparently craiged on this as i was curious about another possible option.  
I havent really seen anyone list what Cle needs are in this.  anyone have any insight on that aside from wanting to dump salary?  
What if there was a chance to get both of them out of there?  Which is to say both of Bauer and Kluber?  Even if it means taking on Kipnis?  I dont think Cle wants to do that after all they have to compete, but im curious if that was on the table what would you pay?