Do you think that Arte feels snake-bitten with the Pujols move?

[Dtwncbad]

Message boards often go down this stupid path where somebody demands someone else prove something.  Its dumb.

If somebody doesn't believe the Angels have no debt, fine.  State that and then their position has context.

Baseball financials are private.  We all know that.  But Arte says he has no debt on the team, people reporting on the purchase said he did it with no debt, and everything over the years has accepted that as fact including those that value the franchises every year.

If someone doesn't believe It, ok good for you!

Instead we get "prove it".  Yawn.

[floplag]

I think most of this board does, but you cant as the owner or youll never take that chance again. 
The thing is high dollar contracts are paf to fit, unless you go down the Chi/Hou road and suck horribly for over a decade to stockpile the farm but even thats not sustainable.
At some point those great players that you had under control for those years are going o get paid, and while you reaped the benefits of their ability you weren't getting the same level of draft quality.
Once youve built that, the only way to sustain it is money, either by paying your own guys you grew or others.
The only other option is to fall back to the pack somewhere as you lose them. 
Many here talk about Hou not being able to maintain it much longer, which is true unless they start writing checks. 
You cant be snakebit or scared of it, its part of the game, unless you follow the As plan of trading everyone away just before they start to cost anything and continuously refresh the farm over the ML roster and be just competitive enough to fill seats (well, sometimes i guess) but never actually achieve anything. 

[Dtwncbad]

Seems like Arte still wants this team to be a top tier franchise like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc.

You have to spend money to be like those operations.

The caution should not be if you are going to spend, the caution is how you spend it and doing your best to spend it on the right players.

Hamilton and Pujols didn't work.

Seems like the lesson is make better choices when you splurge, not to put your tail between your legs and stop pursuing the right players to be a great team.

 

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Seems like Arte still wants this team to be a top tier franchise like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc.

You have to spend money to be like those operations.

The caution should not be if you are going to spend, the caution is how you spend it and doing your best to spend it on the right players.

Hamilton and Pujols didn't work.

Seems like the lesson is make better choices when you splurge, not to put your tail between your legs and stop pursuing the right players to be a great team.

 

You never know if they will be right till its too late. 
Weve made many mistakes in that regard, most teams have, how many big dollar deals across baseball have come close to expectations really.  

[yk9001]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/

this is what forbes shows, but you would know better than I about where debt service can be hidden.  

That's all I was wondering.

 

Again, Angels Baseball LP is a private entity.  The Forbes list gives zero explanation of where they get these numbers.  No methodology I see.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2018/04/11/baseball-team-values-2018/#343bff1d3fc0

But at least it is *something*

[yk9001]

Hulk mad.

[Dtwncbad]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-arte-moreno-20170218-story.html

[Dtwncbad]

www.gq.com/story/arte-moreno-mlb-baseball-owner-los-angeles-angels-anaheim

[Dtwncbad]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-angels-stadium-anaheim-tustin-20140926-story.html

[Dtwncbad]

www.forbes.com/teams/los-angeles-angels/

[Jeff Fletcher]

55 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Seems like Arte still wants this team to be a top tier franchise like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, etc.

You have to spend money to be like those operations.

The caution should not be if you are going to spend, the caution is how you spend it and doing your best to spend it on the right players.

Hamilton and Pujols didn't work.

Seems like the lesson is make better choices when you splurge, not to put your tail between your legs and stop pursuing the right players to be a great team.

 

Maybe by not spending they are making better choices. 

As @floplag noted, the vast majority of the free agents that fans have clamored for over the years have been busts. 

Free agents are usually a bad investment. 

[Dtwncbad]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Maybe by not spending they are making better choices. 

As @floplag noted, the vast majority of the free agents that fans have clamored for over the years have been busts. 

Free agents are usually a bad investment. 

I dont think you can "buy a championship". . .in other words it is almost always going to be foolish to build too much of your team from simply purchasing big name after big name.

But free agency is properly utilized when you have a good core, your minor league system looks like it will be able to feed you cost controlled talent going forward, but you have some specific needs not solved by the current roster or immediately graduating from your system.

Further, beware of large, long contracts for the typical 31 year old free agent.

Given all that, strategic use of free agency is probably necessary if you want to win, unless your minors are so loaded you can trade 6 top 100 prospects for two studs that fit your roster needs.

The Angels have some good players and now have some talent coming.

I believe strategic free agency fits this team's situation right now.

 

[Hubs]

29 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Maybe by not spending they are making better choices. 

As @floplag noted, the vast majority of the free agents that fans have clamored for over the years have been busts. 

Free agents are usually a bad investment. 

Free Agents are usually a bad investment, but some are good. Which free agents are bad investments then and which good?

Players with one career year are usually bad investments. Examples of this include Gary Matthews Jr.

Players with an extensive injury history are usually bad investments. Examples of this include Josh Hamilton.

Players who are over the age of 32 are usually bad investments. Examples include the above as well as Albert Pujols, along with Bobby Abreu (extension), Hideki Matsui, etc.

Really Fat Players are also bad investments. Examples include Mo Vaughan, Pablo Sandoval, Prince Fielder.

Adding a guy like Vlad Guerrero and Torii Hunter are not a bad investment. We need a Vlad 2.0 or a Torii Hunter 2.0.

Role Players are often good investments. Elite starting pitchers are often good investments. Closers are bad investments.

 

 

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

53 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I dont think you can "buy a championship". . .in other words it is almost always going to be foolish to build too much of your team from simply purchasing big name after big name.

But free agency is properly utilized when you have a good core, your minor league system looks like it will be able to feed you cost controlled talent going forward, but you have some specific needs not solved by the current roster or immediately graduating from your system.

Further, beware of large, long contracts for the typical 31 year old free agent.

Given all that, strategic use of free agency is probably necessary if you want to win, unless your minors are so loaded you can trade 6 top 100 prospects for two studs that fit your roster needs.

The Angels have some good players and now have some talent coming.

I believe strategic free agency fits this team's situation right now.

 

I believe they will sign some free agents. If you're only going to be happy with Machado/Harper/Corbin, you're going to be disappointed.

[Lou]

Allow me to recap:

 

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

It was dumb.  It might have also just been an excuse for you to tell us all you are a CPA, which is a huge "big deal" and also made you look silly.

 

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

You are not being normal.

 

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Use google lazy ass.

 

FACE!

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

And add this edit. . .I don't mind being an asshole where it is appropriate.

I agree 

 

signed,

Barry Stereo 

[Blarg]

any relation to Radio Raheem?

[Dtwncbad]

48 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I believe they will sign some free agents. If you're only going to be happy with Machado/Harper/Corbin, you're going to be disappointed.

All I expect is for the Angels to use free agency strategically to fix problems so that they are better in 2019 than 2018 and continue an upward trend (mostly in terms of optimism for the furure).

I have talked at length about Machado for sure.  But that is because he is so young and can play 3B so he seems to perfectly fit both winning now and winning over the next 5 or 6 years.

Only one team is going to get him.  Any fan would be a fool to expect to sign one particular player.

 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

You are misunderstanding me.  Just a numbers example so you know what I am saying. .    If your investments grow your wealth $80m per year, and you start to spend an addiyional $50m per year, then your wealth is still growing by  $30m per year.

The number above are just explaining my point and are not intended to represent Artes actual situation.

At some point when you are a multi-billionaire, it may not matter to you at all if your wealth grow $30m a year or $80m a year.

In this example you see a $50m "loss" and that's fine to see it that way.

It is just important to acknowledge that it is equally fair to see that they are still getting substantially more wealthy every year.

I'm not misunderstanding you at all.  Even in the example you give, actual numbers notwithstanding, you are implying that it's fair for Arte to accumulate wealth at as rapid of a rate because he's already rich.  That's not usually how rich people stay rich.  

If I were him, I'd be maximizing my opportunities to accumulate wealth.  I would also be evaluating the team and their position relative to the ability to win.  Then I'm managing risk as it applies to that situation. 

He's spent enough to maintain a strong fan base under the guise of being competitive.  I am sure he is eyeballing a potential Trout extension and outlay of nearly 400 mil and being advised on when a potential window could open should he decide to make an even larger financial commitment to payroll.  

If you were advising him based on the current construct of this team, would you advise that adding Corbin, Harper, Grandal and Kimbrel is enough to move the needle enough to where we're now on par or better than Houston?  Or would you tell him to wait and see how a few other pieces develop first prior to adding a whole boatload of risk?  

Personally, I think 2021 is the year he could loosen up the reigns and add a significant player that would push past the luxury tax.  That's based on a few assumptions which certainly may not happen.  Like Adell being a fixture in RF or Canning being a top of the rotation starter.  Or one of Jones, Rengifo, Fletcher taking over 2b.  Suarez and Sandoval being part of the rotation.  Signing a reliable starter over the next two years.  Ohtani is back pitching.  Among other moves.  

We are on the verge of getting considerable contributions from the farm system.  Something that hasn't happened for a long time.   
 

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm not misunderstanding you at all.  Even in the example you give, actual numbers notwithstanding, you are implying that it's fair for Arte to accumulate wealth at as rapid of a rate because he's already rich.  That's not usually how rich people stay rich.  

If I were him, I'd be maximizing my opportunities to accumulate wealth.  I would also be evaluating the team and their position relative to the ability to win.  Then I'm managing risk as it applies to that situation. 

He's spent enough to maintain a strong fan base under the guise of being competitive.  I am sure he is eyeballing a potential Trout extension and outlay of nearly 400 mil and being advised on when a potential window could open should he decide to make an even larger financial commitment to payroll.  

If you were advising him based on the current construct of this team, would you advise that adding Corbin, Harper, Grandal and Kimbrel is enough to move the needle enough to where we're now on par or better than Houston?  Or would you tell him to wait and see how a few other pieces develop first prior to adding a whole boatload of risk?  

Personally, I think 2021 is the year he could loosen up the reigns and add a significant player that would push past the luxury tax.  That's based on a few assumptions which certainly may not happen.  Like Adell being a fixture in RF or Canning being a top of the rotation starter.  Or one of Jones, Rengifo, Fletcher taking over 2b.  Suarez and Sandoval being part of the rotation.  Signing a reliable starter over the next two years.  Ohtani is back pitching.  Among other moves.  

We are on the verge of getting considerable contributions from the farm system.  Something that hasn't happened for a long time.   
 

I don't think you have to build a roster that looks BETTER on paper than Houston in order to be in an excellent position to win a championship.

My personal view is one large offensive upgrade, one top half of the rotation starter and a little luck with the bullpen. . . .and the team is WS viable.

Again just my opinion but I think you don't waste that opportunity and "wait" for some future year.

I act now carefully AND enjoy the benefits of some fresh talent coming in a couple of years.