At least 20 dead and 30 injured in Texas church shooting

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The NRA stupidly thinks banning obviously inappropriate weaponry will lead to banning all guns?

Uhh NRA, NO ONE is saying we can't defend ourselves.    But there is a limit to EVERYTHING, including who gets guns and which type of guns they get.

It's STUPID for the NRA to always give the same tired excuse that if these get banned, then ultimately ALL guns will get banned. 

California is doing a pretty good job in achieving this goal. The NRA may be a bit dramatic but it is what the anti gun folks like Gavin Newsom want

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Dumb. I want my gun to go bang immediately after I pull the trigger. No need for more things to cause a failure to fire

^

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

California is doing a pretty good job in achieving this goal. The NRA may be a bit dramatic but it is what the anti gun folks like Gavin Newsom want

I just see it as something obvious.   The guns like those used in the LV massacre and the mentally deranged getting guns, that is the main focus for me.   Not everyday citizens simply wanting a gun to protect themselves.

A better argument for the NRA to make is that those crazies will find a way to get guns illegally.   Maybe so, but at least make as hard as possible for them to get them.

[Jason]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

I just see it as something obvious.   The guns like those used in the LV massacre and the mentally deranged getting guns, that is the main focus for me.   Not everyday citizens simply wanting a gun to protect themselves.

What if you suck shooting a pistol but are great with an AR-15? Shouldn't your home defense weapon be something you are proficient with?

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Jason said:

What if you suck shooting a pistol but are great with an AR-15? Shouldn't your home defense weapon be something you are proficient with?

That is a question worth discussing.

[nate]

19 minutes ago, Jason said:

Dumb. I want my gun to go bang immediately after I pull the trigger. No need for more things to cause a failure to fire

 

12 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

^

You obviously don't know how it works.

It reads your palm print, it is built into the grip, wont fire if it isn't your palm holding it.

Edited November 6, 2017 by nate

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, nate said:

 

You obviously don't know how it works.

It reads your palm print, it is built into the grip, wont fire if it isn't your palm holding it.

What if you're in a self defense situation and it doesn't read your sweaty ass palm like it's supposed too? No thank you

[nate]

Just now, Jason said:

What if you're in a self defense situation and it doesn't read your sweaty ass palm like it's supposed too? No thank you

what if someone takes your gun and shoots 20 kindergartners?

[Chuck]

8 minutes ago, nate said:

You obviously don't know how it works.

It reads your palm print, it is built into the grip, wont fire if it isn't your palm holding it.

Nate, I understand that. I think the point that @Jason & I are agreeing on is that 1. technology can fail,  2. what if I have gloves on, 3. what if my hands are sweaty because of a scary situation or otherwise (my fingerprint sensor on my phone will not work if my index finger is wet), etc. 

All it takes is a split second that you may need to defend yourself where something like this could mean life or death. 

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Nate, I understand that. I think the point that @Jason & I are agreeing on is that 1. technology can fail,  2. what if I have gloves on, 3. what if my hands are sweaty because of a scary situation or otherwise (my fingerprint sensor on my phone will not work if my index finger is wet), etc. 

All it takes is a split second that you may need to defend yourself where something like this could mean life or death. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2014/05/04/smartguns/#1fa5de956729

He makes some good points.

[Jason]

14 minutes ago, nate said:

what if someone takes your gun and shoots 20 kindergartners?

Then I was negligent and gave the dumbass the combo to my safe

[gotbeer]

35 minutes ago, Jason said:

Dumb. I want my gun to go bang immediately after I pull the trigger. No need for more things to cause a failure to fire

Actually the biometric trigger locking device that is currently out is kind of cool.  IMO, it's more convenient than a traditional trigger lock.  But if you wear gloves when shooting, there might be a problem.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/sentinl-inc-launches-identilock-worlds-fastest-trigger-lock/#axzz4xg4F5cJW

And this is an accessory, not part of the gun itself, so the NRA would have little to say about it.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Actually the biometric trigger locking device that is currently out is kind of cool.  IMO, it's more convenient than a traditional trigger lock.  But if you wear gloves when shooting, there might be a problem.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/sentinl-inc-launches-identilock-worlds-fastest-trigger-lock/#axzz4xg4F5cJW

And this is an accessory, not part of the gun itself, so the NRA would have little to say about it.

The one in my nightstand doesn't have any lock of any kind. It's ready to go. When I'm not home it's locked in a 800 lb safe bolted to the foundation. 

[gotbeer]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

The one in my nightstand doesn't have any lock of any kind. It's ready to go. When I'm not home it's locked in a 800 lb safe bolted to the foundation. 

I guess it's personal preference.  If out, I'd prefer a lock on my gun.  And the smart lock seems quick enough to make your gun available.

 

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

I guess it's personal preference.  If out, I'd prefer a lock on my gun.  And the smart lock seems quick enough to make your gun available.

 

If it can be accessed without your knowledge you damn well better have a lock on it or lock it up somewhere. 

[nate]

24 minutes ago, Jason said:

If it can be accessed without your knowledge you damn well better have a lock on it or lock it up somewhere. 

I agree.

Which is why I also think that there should be a law that anyone who has their firearm stolen that is then used to commit a crime should be charged with that crime, no exceptions.

Kid steals your gun to murder someone, then you are charged with murder too.

[fan_since79]

CNN is saying his grandmother-in-law was among the victims.

This is looking more like a domestic violence motive rather than political, but according to his (now deleted) Facebook, he was an avowed atheist. Some aquaintances are also describing how he railed against Christians.

 

 

[Tank]

3 hours ago, gotbeer said:

It'll be interesting, but probably never reported, but interesting to see where the breakdown was.  Was it the clerk not doing a background check, the store, the feds for approving.  It could also be a disconnect between the federal checkpoint, and not including military judicial actions.  

Or this guy might have just used a fake/stolen id.  It'll all be dissected.  

the better job they can do of figuring out the weak link in the chain, the sooner they can take corrective steps to prevent things like this. if that means prosecuting aggressively someone who looked the other way or didn't do their job correctly, then so be it.

[gotbeer]

Air Force is going to get sued, big time.

Air Force Error Allowed Texas Gunman to Buy Weapons

[mtangelsfan]

Wow.  

[Jason]

29 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Wow.  

Wow doesn't describe the amazement of this. Unbelievable 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, gotbeer said:

Air Force is going to get sued, big time.

Air Force Error Allowed Texas Gunman to Buy Weapons

We should start a thread to list reasons why the federal government should have as little control as possible. They fucked this up. 

[Blarg]

5 hours ago, nate said:

I agree.

Which is why I also think that there should be a law that anyone who has their firearm stolen that is then used to commit a crime should be charged with that crime, no exceptions.

Kid steals your gun to murder someone, then you are charged with murder too.

You are a very stupid person on this s subject, did you know that?

[Chuck]

6 hours ago, nate said:

I agree.

Which is why I also think that there should be a law that anyone who has their firearm stolen that is then used to commit a crime should be charged with that crime, no exceptions.

Kid steals your gun to murder someone, then you are charged with murder too.

WTF?

So if someone steals my car and runs over a bunch of people I should be sent to jail?

What if someone breaks into my house, steals my knives so he can stab a bunch of people. 

Seriously Nate, you've lost it.

[nate]

31 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

WTF?

So if someone steals my car and runs over a bunch of people I should be sent to jail?

What if someone breaks into my house, steals my knives so he can stab a bunch of people. 

Seriously Nate, you've lost it.

Gun owners want the guns and none of the responsibility of owning a lethal weapon.