The Official 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

[Ohtaniland]

18 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I feel like if you make a run at Darvish, you may as well make sell some minor league assets for another front line starter like Stroman or Archer.  Preferably the former. 

That’s a huge gamble and exactly the opposite of what Eppler’s track record would suggest. He’s not going to burn any of that farm unless they’re one or two games out of the division at the deadline to pick up that one needed piece.

[tdawg87]

17 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I feel like if you make a run at Darvish, you may as well make sell some minor league assets for another front line starter like Stroman or Archer.  Preferably the former. 

At that point, yeah fuck it. Make the rotation the biggest strength. 

Stroman, Darvish, Ohtani, Richards, Heaney, Skaggs

I'll be in my bunk.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

At that point, yeah fuck it. Make the rotation the biggest strength. 

Stroman, Darvish, Ohtani, Richards, Heaney, Skaggs

I'll be in my bunk.

I'd presume we'd have to give up one of Heaney or Skaggs, but a #5 of Shoe, Trop or Bridwell would be fine as well.  

[IheartLA]

There are 30 MLB teams so a #1 would presumably be top 30 or so. Darvish was #17 in WAR among starters. That's very good. Verlander was #14, I'm sure many think of him as an ace. Greinke was #7, some people consider him a disappointment but he is still very good. Kershaw, Kluber, Sale, Scherzer are top 5 pitchers, if people constitute that as a #1 then there are only like 5-10 #1 starters in the game. Those are ridiculously high standards.

 

[Docwaukee]

I don't think we'll see Darvish get a discounted rate.  He might only get 5 years, but I think it will be for 27mil at least.  I am gonna guess 5/135.  Brewers and Twins seem to have a some money burning holes in their pockets and both are looking for SP.  There's gonna be plenty of teams vying for his services.  

[totdprods]

Astros' owner has stated they're actively pursuing a top starter, and this just came out. 
I'd still like to see the Angels consider Darvish.

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan 1m1 minute ago

Sources: The Houston Astros have engaged with the Pittsburgh Pirates on trade talks for starter Gerrit Cole. One name bandied about as a return: outfielder Derek Fisher. For a trade to happen, Pirates almost certainly would need Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley as a centerpiece.

[totdprods]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I don't think we'll see Darvish get a discounted rate.  He might only get 5 years, but I think it will be for 27mil at least.  I am gonna guess 5/135.  Brewers and Twins seem to have a some money burning holes in their pockets and both are looking for SP.  There's gonna be plenty of teams vying for his services.  

Angels may have an edge to get a little less money - who would want to really move to Milwaukee or Minneapolis? Don't get me wrong, Yu could be all about the money, but those teams may have to pay more to pry him away from comfortable surroundings.

[krAbs]

14 hours ago, Ochocinco! said:

 

Just like when every analyst said Moustakas to the Angels was a foregone conclusion 

Hey man, last I saw Moustakas hasn't signed anywhere yet. haha

Really, I think this only happens if Ohtani makes it happen. Similar to how Upton brought in Kinsler. I think if Ohtani comes up to Darvish, tells him that he always looked up to him as a kid, and that he wants to create a legendary 1-2 Japanese star pitching combo with him, then maybe something happens and we get Darvish at a discount. Outside of that (which is a long shot), I don't really see how we end up with Darvish.

[Angelsfan1984]

31 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Astros' owner has stated they're actively pursuing a top starter, and this just came out. 
I'd still like to see the Angels consider Darvish.

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan 1m1 minute ago

Sources: The Houston Astros have engaged with the Pittsburgh Pirates on trade talks for starter Gerrit Cole. One name bandied about as a return: outfielder Derek Fisher. For a trade to happen, Pirates almost certainly would need Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley as a centerpiece.

that's scary

[Vlad27Trout27]

43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Astros' owner has stated they're actively pursuing a top starter, and this just came out. 
I'd still like to see the Angels consider Darvish.

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan 1m1 minute ago

Sources: The Houston Astros have engaged with the Pittsburgh Pirates on trade talks for starter Gerrit Cole. One name bandied about as a return: outfielder Derek Fisher. For a trade to happen, Pirates almost certainly would need Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley as a centerpiece.

Well if the asking price is Whitley or Tucker this trade is not going to happen.

[AngelsFanSince86]

18 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Perhaps it's just a difference of how a #1 is defined, but I don't consider Richards or Darvish as a #1.  Strong #2s probably,  but not a #1.  I think of a true #1 as more of an ace-type pitcher, such as Kershaw, Scherzer, Sale, Kluber, etc.  As for Ohtani, well, we'll see.  I won't call him a #1 right now without him having thrown a single pitch in the MLB yet.  I have high hopes for him, but I do need to see him perform and adjust first before giving him that kind of label.

I think #1 and ace are two different things.  One means you are one of the top 30 SPs in baseball and the next means you are an elite pitcher.  Darvish has varied mostly due to injuries.  He only had one year with a sub-3 ERA, 200IP, and he had 277 SO that year.  He was an ace and the next year he followed it up with an ERA of 3.06 and 182 SO in 144 IP.  That was ace-level production that was cut short by injury.  Since then he's been injured and has shown ace-level stuff, but hasn't been consistent.  All in all he is a #1 guy, but he's not been an ace overall.  I can see how you would call him a strong #2 type.

Richards, on the other hand, is a clear #1 with injuries being the only thing holding him back from being an ace.  His stuff is some of the best in baseball.  Since 2014 when he finally put it together he has a 3.06 ERA, 123 ERA+, and 3.25 FIP.  For comparison, Scherzer has a career 3.30 ERA, 129 ERA+, and 3.25 FIP.  What sets apart Scherzer is his recent dominance and his ability to stay healthy.  

Ohtani remains to be seen, but with Richards, Darvish, and Ohtani, you would likely have at least two #1 types, with a strong #2 with the upside of having three aces.

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

Ohtani remains to be seen, but with Richards, Darvish, and Ohtani, you would likely have at least two #1 types, with a strong #2 with the upside of having three aces.

...and Richards could be on another team next year. Darvish would be a reasonable (albeit expensive) insurance policy in the event Richards walks, Ohtani doesn't have immediate success, or either of their arms aspllode.

[krAbs]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Astros' owner has stated they're actively pursuing a top starter, and this just came out. 
I'd still like to see the Angels consider Darvish.

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan 1m1 minute ago

Sources: The Houston Astros have engaged with the Pittsburgh Pirates on trade talks for starter Gerrit Cole. One name bandied about as a return: outfielder Derek Fisher. For a trade to happen, Pirates almost certainly would need Kyle Tucker or Forrest Whitley as a centerpiece.

IDK if Garrit Cole is that much of a game changer for the Astros. if he returns to 2015 Cole, sure. But he hasn't been great since then, and was pretty bad last year. Baseball reference projects him at an ERA of 3.95, which would make him their #5 starter (behind Verlander, Peacock, Keuchel, and juuust barely behind McCullers). It would be a hellish rotation, but not that much better than what they already have.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, krAbs said:

IDK if Garrit Cole is that much of a game changer for the Astros. if he returns to 2015 Cole, sure. But he hasn't been great since then, and was pretty bad last year. Baseball reference projects him at an ERA of 3.95, which would make him their #5 starter (behind Verlander, Peacock, Keuchel, and juuust barely behind McCullers). It would be a hellish rotation, but not that much better than what they already have.

They need some insurance if when Keuchel walks next year, and if Verlander starts to regress. Cole's a bit of a gamble, I'd think. Arrieta, Darvish, or Archer make more sense, IMO.

[krAbs]

Just now, totdprods said:

They need some insurance if when Keuchel walks next year, and if Verlander starts to regress. Cole's a bit of a gamble, I'd think. Arrieta, Darvish, or Archer make more sense, IMO.

Fair enough. And maybe they are willing to sell the farm for that, but I would be a bit surprised. Aren't there a lot of good arms available as FA next year?

[Make Angels Great Again]

When Gerrit Cole is your #5, your rotation is pretty good.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Fair enough. And maybe they are willing to sell the farm for that, but I would be a bit surprised. Aren't there a lot of good arms available as FA next year?

I can't really critique them now since they're coming off a WS win, but I've long thought Luhnow's done a questionable job of pulling the trigger for the Astros.

I'd guess this was an intentional leak re: Cole to ramp up their efforts to sign Darvish or Arrieta. They've been too hesitant to trade big-name prospects up until now, and to deal someone like Whitley or Tucker for Cole seems a little unlike their FO. Or maybe they see something in Cole like they did Verlander and he'd be a stud for them.

 

[Troll Daddy]

 

[VariousCrap]

When talking about SP's for the Angels, I'd say stay away from Darvish and Arrieta and look at Cobb or Lynn.  I still think either one of those guys makes more sense money wise for the Angels.

[Blarg]

Money wise it makes more sense to go with who they have for a rotation and not use up any surplus cash. 

[DailyHalo]

We should trade for some of Milwaukee's arms. Knebel, Nelson and Hader are all nasty or maybe talk to Pittsburgh and see what they want for Rivero. Get either a filthy lefty or a closer to solidify the pen. We don't need to lose games unnecessarily because we didn't hunker down the bullpen. You could always add more starting pitching as well, plus It would just give us more arms to trade for other needs.

[nando714]

17 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

 

Anyone know the date of this payment ?

[Vlad27Trout27]

Relating to the Darvish situation, If we can get him for 4 yr 80 mil and add team opp-out for the 5th year, I wouldn't mind getting him. But, i'm worry about the innings he has pitched and his  arm injuries. For this reason, if we can get a guy like Cobb for cheaper i wouldn't mind it. The only problem i see with this is that if it with create a payroll issue for next few seasons and affecting our next off season. 

 Next thing, relates to Richards. I think if he can pitch next year w/o injuries chance of him coming back are good and on a team friendly deal. simply due to his past injury history., I think a 3 yrs 38 mil, plus an oppt 4th year. also include incentives for every time he pitches every 50 innings, becomes an all-star....Etc. So, with the 14 mil oppt we are looking at about 4 yrs 52 mil, and with incentives about 4yr/ 62 mil.

Personally, i would just sign a guys like Jaime Garcia and bring his career 56% ground ball rate into our infield, also it only has been 2 yr since he put up an all star like year. I would say that bring him in Angels stadium and with our defense he could be really good.   probably 2 yrs 13 mil.

with the money saved we could go sign an guy like AL Avila as a back-up catcher and 1st baseman. 2 yrs 12 mil. 

[VariousCrap]

19 hours ago, Blarg said:

Money wise it makes more sense to go with who they have for a rotation and not use up any surplus cash. 

No doubt.  I was just meaning if they are deciding to sign a SP, Cobb or Lynn makes more sense.  Especially Cobb who would be like bringing in another Richards level SP.

[Ohtaniland]

20 hours ago, Blarg said:

Money wise it makes more sense to go with who they have for a rotation and not use up any surplus cash. 

They should be good to go. They have Ohtani and three guys that were first round draft picks in Skaggs, Heaney and Richards. It’s time for these guys to step it up and perform like they belong in a MLB rotation.