Thoughts and Prayers

[Taylor]

8 hours ago, Lou said:

She has bigger balls than the Uvalde police department.

Fixed

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:17 AM, Taylor said:

Do you think a two-celled embryo has the same rights as a third grader?

I think we should weigh rights based on cell count. Would solve a lot of issues, adults would rule over children, men would over rule women, except short ones and midgets, as it should be. Toby would rule this board and Larry would always come last.

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:26 AM, jsnpritchett said:

Also says that he was frequently bullied for a speech impediment.

Maybe instead of active shooter drills the students should be instructed on what happens when they routinely bully the kid with a disability.

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Maybe instead of active shooter drills the students should be instructed on what happens when they routinely bully the kid with a disability.

Kids caught bullying should be kicked out of the school. Zero tolerance for that behavior 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:46 PM, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not going to get into the philosophical aspects of this question because that’s all deeply personal and subjective.  None of it matters at all in the real world.  What I’ll say is and I’ve been consistent on this point - is that if the child is feasible out of the womb, even if it must spend an extended amount of time in a neonatal incubator - then I think it is justified to treat this as a human being.  I’ve told you before that if you *must* have some kind of abortion restrictions.  Then I think it is acceptable to have regulatory items around this.  

With the ever changing pace of technology it is reasonable to assume that a fetus could be made to survive outside of a womb from the moment of conception at some point. Ultimately a line has to be drawn and there isn't really a satisfying and intellectually consistent spot to place it that does not come down to some sort of philosophical position. 

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

With the ever changing pace of technology it is reasonable to assume that a fetus could be made to survive outside of a womb from the moment of conception at some point. Ultimately a line has to be drawn and there isn't really a satisfying and intellectually consistent spot to place it that does not come down to some sort of philosophical position. 

I guess that’s a bridge we cross if it becomes an issue.  Today I don’t think this is something to be concerned with. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I guess that’s a bridge we cross if it becomes an issue.  Today I don’t think this is something to be concerned with. 

Drawing a line is 100% the issue today.

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Drawing a line is 100% the issue today.

Well I said previously what the line is for me today.  Which is something I have decided based on the world I live in currently.  On this issue I’m not going to concern myself with what they can do *maybe* in 50 years. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

That’s awesome man. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Well I said previously what the line is for me today.  Which is something I have decided based on the world I live in currently.  On this issue I’m not going to concern myself with what they can do *maybe* in 50 years. 

My point is, your opinion of where we should place the line is based on our current technology. That isn't a solid foundation for intellectual consistency. In fact I'd say it's far less grounded intellectually than Kotchman's position (*SHOCK*). The reason the debate is challenging is because there is no satisfying and intellectually consistent position to be had. 

[Taylor]

25 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

With the ever changing pace of technology it is reasonable to assume that a fetus could be made to survive outside of a womb from the moment of conception at some point. Ultimately a line has to be drawn and there isn't really a satisfying and intellectually consistent spot to place it that does not come down to some sort of philosophical position. 

Scientists still don't understand exactly what happens from day 5 through roughly day 21. They've tried to replicate the implantation process in a lab but can't keep an embryo alive longer than 2 weeks post fertilization.

It's a mysterious process and I honestly doubt there will ever been an artificial way to mimic those first crucial weeks.

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

My point is, your opinion of where we should place the line is based on our current technology. That isn't a solid foundation for intellectual consistency. In fact I'd say it's far less grounded intellectually than Kotchman's position (*SHOCK*). The reason the debate is challenging is because there is no satisfying and intellectually consistent position to be had. 

I was asked what I thought about when life began and I explained that I wasn’t interested in that question because in my opinion it’s a pointless one.  It’s pointless to me because it’s basically a religious question.  It’s a matter of feeling.  There is no objective way to determine this. There never ever will be.  So then I commented on the ground I may be willing to concede on the question of abortions themselves, the limitations I mean.  So I said that if we have a fetus that is healthy and viable outside of the womb - even with medical care - then I would be open to some kind of limitations there.  You’re saying that’s intellectually unsound based on some hypothetical technology that may well never exist.  The world changes is my answer for that.  When it changes you adjust.  I’m not sure what else you want me to say. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Scientists still don't understand exactly what happens from day 5 through roughly day 21. They've tried to replicate the implantation process in a lab but can't keep an embryo alive longer than 2 weeks post fertilization.

It's a mysterious process and I honestly doubt there will ever been an artificial way to mimic those first crucial weeks.

That's interesting. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I was asked what I thought about when life began and I explained that I wasn’t interested in that question because in my opinion it’s a pointless one.  It’s pointless to me because it’s basically a religious question.  It’s a matter of feeling.  There is no objective way to determine this. There never ever will be.  So then I commented on the ground I may be willing to concede on the question of abortions themselves, the limitations I mean.  So I said that if we have a fetus that is healthy and viable outside of the womb - even with medical care - then I would be open to some kind of limitations there.  You’re saying that’s intellectually unsound based on some hypothetical technology that may well never exist.  The world changes is my answer for that.  When it changes you adjust.  I’m not sure what else you want me to say. 

I'm saying your entire position is based on feeling. And that's ok, because that's generally all we can go off of on this topic.

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I'm saying your entire position is based on feeling.

Well I disagree pretty strongly with that.  There is an objectively true point in a pregnancy when the fetus is viable and able to properly grow and develop without the mothers womb. I’ve taken that point and said that if you must have abortion restrictions that’s where you put it.  It’s not a feeling.  That’s the point where the mother is no longer required.  I am not saying that I agree that women should be required to carry to that point. I do not believe that at all.  

Edited May 29, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[Taylor]

A baby doesn't look anything like a baby until about 12 weeks. I'd be fine with a compromise of no abortions after the first trimester (13 weeks) except for medical reasons (or extreme circumstances).

91% of abortions happen in the first trimester, and 99% happen before 20 weeks.

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Well I disagree pretty strongly with that.  There is an objectively true point in a pregnancy when the fetus is viable and able to properly grow and develop without the mothers womb. I’ve taken that point and said that if you must have abortion restrictions that’s where you put it.  It’s not a feeling.  That’s the point where the mother is no longer required.  I am not saying that I agree that women should be required to carry to that point. I do not believe that at all.  

That's why I brought up changes in technology, making that a moving target. Taking modern medicine out of the picture it becomes an intellectually consistent position, but, like with Kotchman's position, still one with an outcome that is not satisfying.

[katie]

26 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Scientists still don't understand exactly what happens from day 5 through roughly day 21. They've tried to replicate the implantation process in a lab but can't keep an embryo alive longer than 2 weeks post fertilization.

It's a mysterious process and I honestly doubt there will ever been an artificial way to mimic those first crucial weeks.

There are laws against keeping a developing human embryo alive past 14 days. Ex vivo

Edited May 29, 2022 by Katie

[Taylor]

4 minutes ago, Katie said:

There are laws against keeping a developing human embryo alive past 14 days. Ex vivo

That's right. I remember hearing that before.

[cals]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Kids caught bullying should be kicked out of the school. Zero tolerance for that behavior 

Jason found the one thing that 99% of Angelswin will get behind.

Not me though.

[Kotchman]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

Well I said previously what the line is for me today.  Which is something I have decided based on the world I live in currently.  On this issue I’m not going to concern myself with what they can do *maybe* in 50 years. 

Didn’t stop you with climate change 

[Lou]

lol 

[Kotchman]

42 minutes ago, cals said:

Jason found the one thing that 99% of Angelswin will get behind.

Not me though.

A prime example of where we went wrong in schools. We had a few stabbings and suddenly fighting was damn near mandatory expulsion. The only way to stop bullying is an old fashioned ass whipping. The Taylor types brought in guidance counselors and anti bullying legislation and now the problem is worse. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:55 AM, Lou said:

Has anyone here ever encountered an intruder in their home? 

A squirrel almost got in my apartment this morning. 

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Kotchman said:

Didn’t stop you with climate change 

I’m sure you think this is a real gotcha.  Which is funny because it illustrates how you don’t understand anything.  Mostly just because you can’t be bothered to think about anything.  The next day pill and like rising sea levels have disparate impacts on human civilization.