OK, Billy...PLEASE

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

I'm surprised you took the time to respond to that one haha, we should never release Albert as long as there's a DH in the AL. 

Ha. Taking care of mom comes first.

[FanSince'98]

Just now, Lou said:

The pitchers are a possibility.

Escobar?  Let's see, who needs a slow .271 slap-hitting, terrible fielding 3rd baseman? 

The options are limited now that teams have added infielders and made trades but I thought BOS was a good option I'm sure there are other teams who could use an above average hitter who averages about 1.0-2.0 WAR per season in his career. You may be down on him but he's not worthless and Norris/Hernandez are even more valuable so don't give up on that yet, the only mistake we can make is not making ANY rebuild/restructure trades. 

[Inside Pitch]

20 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

True...so...

Norris: 3.12 ERA/1.116 WHIP

Hernandez: 2.34 ERA/1.01 WHIP

Escobar: .271 AVG/.328 OBP

No reason at all we shouldn't get some mid tier strong potential prospects for those guys. 

Not sure if you were here last year but Escobar was in the middle of a better season last year and when the guy that covers the team was approached with questions about whether the team was going to trade him he told us that the feeling he was getting was that nobody wanted him.  

Perhaps you could tell us the obvious suitors for their services..   Because the Nats traded for two guys with WHIPS under 0.800...  So, better than what we have to offer..  The Rockies traded for a RP with a significantly better track record and it doesn't seem like anyone has any interest in Escobar...   The D-backs, Brewers and Rockies all have better players manning 3B.  The NL Wild Card race is not close -- it's a limited market and the team that most needed help in the pen, got it.  The most obvious target in the AL WC race for RP help was TB -- they just acquired Dan Jennings, again, a player with a much better recent track record.  

We are in total agreement in who the most obvious potential targets should be -- but again...  you need to find a willing partner.     

 

[FanSince'98]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Not sure if you were here last year but Escobar was in the middle of a better season last year and when the guy that covers the team was approached with questions about whether the team was going to trade him he told us that the feeling he was getting was that nobody wanted him.  

Perhaps you could tell us the obvious suitors for their services..   Because the Nats traded for two guys with WHIPS under 0.800...  So, better than what we have to offer..  The Rockies traded for a RP with a significantly better track record and it doesn't seem like anyone has any interest in Escobar...   The D-backs, Brewers and Rockies all have better players manning 3B.  The NL Wild Card race is not close -- it's a limited market and the team that most needed help in the pen, got it...   The most obvious targets in the AL WC race for RP help was TB -- they just acquired Dan Jennings, again, a player with a much better recent track record.  

We are in total agreement in who the most obvious potential targets should be -- but again...  you need to find a willing partner.     

 

I agree that Eppler has missed many opportunities or been beaten in deals with competitive teams that could've traded with us, that doesn't mean our players aren't desired, it means we missed our chance. HOPEFULLY there are other teams we aren't thinking of willing to work with us, but it seems once again the league has passed us by while we have our heads in the sand. Agreed on that. 

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

And if you can't find a team that wants your players, it says a lot about your players. 

In this case it means nobody has wanted Escobar for two years straight and there were better RPs available.   But yeah -- youre also right in that it tells us how those other teams value the guys we had to offer.

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Ha. Taking care of mom comes first.

That is a good thing you're doing. Well done Lou, I tip my hat to you. 

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

I see a lot of people basically giving up on the next few years already.  To this i would say if you plan is to do nothing and wait on the farm then yes, you are right, thats the soonest we would be in contention again.   I also think this is the worst bad plan we could ever do when you have a player like Trout on the club.  

If this is the plan i say again whats the point to having him when he could accelerate that process by 2 years or more in trade?  Its no what i want but there is a lot of having that cake and eating it too going on here.  you can play the build the farm game without the 10 years of sucking the Astros, Cubs, et al... went thru and we havent been bad enough to really make that work with high enough draft picks anyway so weve torpedoed our own plan by being middle of the road. 

We are only as far out of contention as we choose to be, period.  We are not a poor team, we could afford the luxury tax, the last couple years and literally any year beyond this one that this teams wallows in mediocrity is by its own doing.    

Most of the pieces we have needed have been there, we choose not to spend and went dumpster diving for the clean peanut (most were still not that clean) and have literally wasted the last few years due to shellshock over self inflicted wounds for deals we never should have signed to begin and fear of the damned luzury tax, as though that should even be a concern.

If the team wants to be mediocre, fine, but stop blowing sunshine up our rears and be honest about it.  All this lukewarm sorta in the WC picture stuff is crap IMO.  not good enough to actually matter, not bad enough to build the farm effectively.   Im kinda tired of the limbo.  Blow it up for real, or spend, stop being wishy washy indecisive pussies 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Not sure if you were here last year but Escobar was in the middle of a better season last year and when the guy that covers the team was approached with questions about whether the team was going to trade him he told us that the feeling he was getting was that nobody wanted him.  

Perhaps you could tell us the obvious suitors for their services..   Because the Nats traded for two guys with WHIPS under 0.800...  So, better than what we have to offer..  The Rockies traded for a RP with a significantly better track record and it doesn't seem like anyone has any interest in Escobar...   The D-backs, Brewers and Rockies all have better players manning 3B.  The NL Wild Card race is not close -- it's a limited market and the team that most needed help in the pen, got it...   The most obvious targets in the AL WC race for RP help was TB -- they just acquired Dan Jennings, again, a player with a much better recent track record.  

We are in total agreement in who the most obvious potential targets should be -- but again...  you need to find a willing partner.     

 

Is there any evidence the Angels shopped Escobar?

 

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

The options are limited now that teams have added infielders and made trades but I thought BOS was a good option I'm sure there are other teams who could use an above average hitter who averages about 1.0-2.0 WAR per season in his career. You may be down on him but he's not worthless and Norris/Hernandez are even more valuable so don't give up on that yet, the only mistake we can make is not making ANY rebuild/restructure trades. 

Oh, I agreed about the pitchers. 

Escobar's 2017 WAR IS 0.1

Nobody wanted him last year when he was much better. 

[FanSince'98]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Oh, I agreed about the pitchers. 

Escobar's 2017 WAR IS 0.1

Nobody wanted him last year when he was much better. 

I don't remember him ever being shopped I'm pretty sure we were ALWAYS going to keep him since we had him under control for another year and we constantly want to "try" to be competitive due to Trout. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, FanSince'98 said:

I agree that Eppler has missed many opportunities or been beaten in deals with competitive teams that could've traded with us, that doesn't mean our players aren't desired, it means we missed our chance. HOPEFULLY there are other teams we aren't thinking of willing to work with us, but it seems once again the league has passed us by while we have our heads in the sand. Agreed on that. 

So....  nevermind that better, more diserable options were available.   These other teams should have settled for lesser talents with weaker recent resume's because some Angels message board poster wants his baba..  

Got it..   

[FanSince'98]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

So....  nevermind that better, more diserable options were available.   These other teams should have settled for lesser talents with weaker recent resume's because some Angels message board poster wants his baba..  

Got it..   

Not even remotely true, it's about value, not the players, if you wanted Arenado but had to give up your entire farm team that's a worse deal than getting a farm prospect for a few bucks and a bag of baseballs. If we couldn't negotiate a real value for an RP with mid 2 ERAs then we're incompetent at negotiating trades. Again, doesn't mean our players don't have value and aren't desired. 

[FanSince'98]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So....  nevermind that better, more diserable options were available.   These other teams should have settled for lesser talents with weaker recent resume's because some Angels message board poster wants his baba..  

Got it..   

Dan Jennings went to the Rays he has a 3.45 ERA/1.2 WHIP, better than Norris/Hernandez or they just got a better deal than we'd negotiate....? Because Jennings' stats are worse on paper. 

[FanSince'98]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

Oh, I agreed about the pitchers. 

Escobar's 2017 WAR IS 0.1

Nobody wanted him last year when he was much better. 

Nunez was traded his war right now for '17 is .2 lol.

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, FanSince'98 said:

Not even remotely true, it's about value, not the players, if you wanted Arenado but had to give up your entire farm team that's a worse deal than getting a farm prospect for a few bucks and a bag of baseballs. If we couldn't negotiate a real value for an RP with mid 2 ERAs then we're incompetent at negotiating trades. Again, doesn't mean our players don't have value and aren't desired. 

What part isn't remotely true?  That better pitchers were available?  Or that they had better resumes?   Your opinion of "value" means nothing in this discussion.   Again. . What you want to happen and what others teams are willing to do are not one in the same.  

[FanSince'98]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

What part isn't remotely true?  That better pitchers were available?  Or that they had better resumes?   Your opinion of "value" means nothing in this discussion.   Again. . What you want to happen and what others teams are willing to do are not one in the same.  

Jennings & Nunez are both lower value WAR players than Norris or Hernandez and we still can't negotiate a trade...you apparently haven't reviewed stats of these players traded because they aren't better than ours on paper, maybe in your opinion. 

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

Dan Jennings went to the Rays he has a 3.45 ERA/1.2 WHIP, better than Norris/Hernandez or they just got a better deal than we'd negotiate....? Because Jennings' stats are worse on paper. 

He's a left-hander..   Thats what the Rays were supposedly looking for in the pen.  

They just got Boxberger back off the DL..  They have Whitley and Hunter as RHs in front of Colome....   Again. WHAT YOU WANT - and what other teams are looking for/willing to do are two different things.  But please..  Keep stomping your foot while ignoring that simple fact.

 

[FanSince'98]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

He's a left-hander..   Thats what the Rays were supposedly looking for in the pen.  

They just got Boxberger back off the DL..  They have Whitley and Hunter as RHs in front of Colome....   Again. WHAT YOU WANT - and what other teams are looking for/willing to do are two different things.  But please..  Keep stomping your foot while ignoring that simple fact.

 

HA okay boss, you keep living in your misunderstood fantasy world of baseball where the game is real and the stats don't matter. Nunez is a photo copy of escobar as a player and there are other RPs traded that are worse than Norris. You just have no defensible point based on the stats. 

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

Jennings & Nunez are both lower value WAR players than Norris or Hernandez and we still can't negotiate a trade...you apparently haven't reviewed stats of these players traded because they aren't better than ours on paper, maybe in your opinion. 

Good lord man.  Nunez is an IFer..   his WAR means dick when talking about Norris and Hernandez... which you are...   Jennings is a LHP with an estalished track record and under club control through 2020.

But please -- keep deluding yourself.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

HA okay boss, you keep living in your misunderstood fantasy world of baseball where the game is real and the stats don't matter. Nunez is a photo copy of escobar as a player and there are other RPs traded that are worse than Norris. You just have no defensible point based on the stats. 

Nunez can play more than one position. 

[FanSince'98]

Maurer traded 5.58 ERA, Cahill traded 3.69 ERA

[FanSince'98]

Just now, totdprods said:

Nunez can play more than one position. 

You're right Nunez provides an extra .1 in WAR huge value....

[Ohtaniland]

So who are our core guys again? Albert, Trout, Kole and Simmons? 

[Docwaukee]

I feel like Troll Daddy, but I doubt that Eppler is going to convince an opposing GM to give him a particular prospect for one of our relievers because his WAR is higher than some other guy on a different team.  

Escobar's contract is expiring this year.  Teams didn't want him last year at the price we were asking.  Why did we ask that price?  Because he still had a year of reasonably priced club control.  Now he has no value to us going forward so there we'll take what we can get.  All you can hope for in that situation is that there is more than one team considering him.

Norris, Hernandez and Petit will have value because there will be more than one team bidding for their services.  A couple of mid tier prospects sounds fine by me.  Would love to package a couple of them and perhaps Maybin at a PTBNL for a nicer prospect, but I doubt that happens.  

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, FanSince'98 said:

HA okay boss, you keep living in your misunderstood fantasy world of baseball where the game is real and the stats don't matter. Nunez is a photo copy of escobar as a player and there are other RPs traded that are worse than Norris. You just have no defensible point based on the stats. 

Yes... . I'm the one living in a misunderstood fantasy world of baseball...  The one where WAR is a more predictive tool for future success as opposed to WHIP when talking about RPs..

Tell me more a bout these real stats...   Because you are a fountain of light in these dark dark times...

[Angel Oracle]

36 minutes ago, Lou said:

And leave $87 Million on the table? 

At least Bonilla it, so that the team can use the extra AAV payroll space in 2019-2021?   Granted with say 5% interest over 10 years, that would add $20 million to the $87 million to make it $10.7 million/season from 2019-2028.   It would free $13.3 million from AAV payroll in 2019-2021, while adding $10.7 million to it from 2022-2028.   The AAV payroll/luxury tax limit should be pretty high by 2022 anyway.  

Pujols gets the $87 million plus $20 million through 2028, and the team gets AAV payroll relief for 3 years.

Just a thought