With Mike Trout out for up to two months, is it finally time for the Angels to sell?

[ivdown]

http://baselinetimes.com/the-angels-can-finally-sell-two-years-too-late/

"What really interests me about Trout is his overall percentage of value to the Angels. In 2014, Trout was worth 26.33% of the positional fWAR. That’s completely acceptable for a good team, even with a superstar player. Once you get into 2015 and beyond, that’s where things start to look very, very bad. In 2015 Trout was worth 50.5% of the Angels positional fWAR. In 2016, Trout was worth 43.5% of the Angels positional fWAR. So far in 2017, it’s been even more unbalanced with Trout accounting for a whopping 63.2% of the Angels total position fWAR."

With the frustrating news of Mike Trout's thumb injury a couple of days ago and the news of his surgery, I wrote about how it's finally time for the Angels to rebuild and sell off any assets that can bring in new young talent. Above is a snippet from the article that shows just how important Trout really is to the Angels (duh). 

[ivdown]

The screenname is an old one from years ago, hopefully it doesn't draw too much ire from people here. For those that still frequent Angels Win and remember me, I am Bobby, Cory's friend. For those that don't, feel free to read the article and tell me if my conclusion is stupid (or not). 

[ettin]

Hi Bobby,

First of all a lot of what you said is true, I have written about rebuilds myself so I get your thought process.

However the idea of selling off Mike Trout right now is ludicrous in my opinion. 2017 was always going to be a crap shoot with a lot of things needing to break more right than wrong. After this off-season we will almost certainly see a vastly improved baseball team in all facets of the game. Offense, rotation, defense, and bullpen should look completely different once Eppler is done. 2018 will be a more competitive season in all likelihood.

You will not get Trout's value back in any trade you make right now. You will be giving any acquiring team a vast sum of value and get only a 1/10th back in return. Pennies on the dollar. It just doesn't make sense for the Angels. This will only be revisited pre-season 2020 or at the trade deadline in 2020 if the Angels haven't extended Mike by then (and they will do everything they can to extend him).

Despite the obvious holes in our lineup (2B being the biggest one) and our rotation and bullpen injuries there is a clear core to build around. Mike Trout, Kole Calhoun, Andrelton Simmons, and Martin Maldonado are good players. Eppler will have choices next season for the rotation not to mention anyone he signs or trades for too. The bullpen has an excellent back-end group of Bedrosian, Parker, and Alvarez to build upon.

This season is probably done if the makeshift squad we have in place right now can't tread enough water until Trout returns. Even then nothing is promised. Eppler could also try to upgrade by selling off some parts at the deadline. For instance Bud Norris could bring back something significant and we have Bedrosian and possibly Street to fill the gap. Lateral moves that help the team without hurting it too much.

Certainly the Angels haven't helped themselves with some of their moves in recent years but a total tear down is way too reactionary. We have the parts to build on and free agency and the trade markets should be exploited next year by Eppler. We should have a significant amount of cash available for free agency and possible trades after this season so the team will improve in short order.

Thanks for sharing the article I enjoyed reading it.

[GuliblGuy]

2 hours ago, Dodgerfan23 said:

The screenname is an old one from years ago, hopefully it doesn't draw too much ire from people here. For those that still frequent Angels Win and remember me, I am Bobby, Cory's friend. For those that don't, feel free to read the article and tell me if my conclusion is stupid (or not). 

No one likes you and you are an abomination to baseball 

[ivdown]

23 hours ago, ettin said:

Hi Bobby,

First of all a lot of what you said is true, I have written about rebuilds myself so I get your thought process.

However the idea of selling off Mike Trout right now is ludicrous in my opinion. 2017 was always going to be a crap shoot with a lot of things needing to break more right than wrong. After this off-season we will almost certainly see a vastly improved baseball team in all facets of the game. Offense, rotation, defense, and bullpen should look completely different once Eppler is done. 2018 will be a more competitive season in all likelihood.

You will not get Trout's value back in any trade you make right now. You will be giving any acquiring team a vast sum of value and get only a 1/10th back in return. Pennies on the dollar. It just doesn't make sense for the Angels. This will only be revisited pre-season 2020 or at the trade deadline in 2020 if the Angels haven't extended Mike by then (and they will do everything they can to extend him).

Despite the obvious holes in our lineup (2B being the biggest one) and our rotation and bullpen injuries there is a clear core to build around. Mike Trout, Kole Calhoun, Andrelton Simmons, and Martin Maldonado are good players. Eppler will have choices next season for the rotation not to mention anyone he signs or trades for too. The bullpen has an excellent back-end group of Bedrosian, Parker, and Alvarez to build upon.

This season is probably done if the makeshift squad we have in place right now can't tread enough water until Trout returns. Even then nothing is promised. Eppler could also try to upgrade by selling off some parts at the deadline. For instance Bud Norris could bring back something significant and we have Bedrosian and possibly Street to fill the gap. Lateral moves that help the team without hurting it too much.

Certainly the Angels haven't helped themselves with some of their moves in recent years but a total tear down is way too reactionary. We have the parts to build on and free agency and the trade markets should be exploited next year by Eppler. We should have a significant amount of cash available for free agency and possible trades after this season so the team will improve in short order.

Thanks for sharing the article I enjoyed reading it.

Thank you so much for the read as well as the in-depth response. Originally the article I wrote was going to be the first part of a 2 part series, with the second one being potential Mike Trout trades. But the more I thought about it and talked about it to other people, I realized more and more that there is no fair Mike Trout trade. Either you had people giving not nearly enough, even if it was a huge haul, or you had people saying that the Astros should trade Correa, Springer, and Bregman, or the Dodgers should trade Seager, Urias, and Bellinger, or other crazy things like that.

A Mike Trout trade just might never be feasible, even the year before he's a free agent. Any Trout trade would have to be the Angels knowing that they aren't getting back fair value as far as Trout as a player, however I do believe there could still be a trade out there that gets them enough value to make it work. Still, he's the best player in baseball, I don't know if I'd ever seriously advocate a trade.

The thing I am worried about for the Angels is their farm system. It seems as though it's gotten slightly better the last year or so, but it's still seriously lacking any high-end talent. Jones is your best prospect, and he was ranked 140 on John Sickels and minorleagueball.com before the season. I think I would feel ok if the Angels had actually gone after some good free agents the last couple of years, but there were some real missed opportunities IMO.

I do hope you are right and that Eppler uses the FA market to improve the team, because it's no fun even from a non-Angel fan standpoint to see Trout on a .500 or worse team.

Thanks again so much for reading it and your feedback, it means a lot!

 

[Angels#1Fan]

On 5/31/2017 at 8:42 AM, Dodgerfan23 said:

The screenname is an old one from years ago, hopefully it doesn't draw too much ire from people here.

It's very easy to change your screen name if you want to.

Frankly I don't have a problem with your nick, but a Dodger fans opinion of the Angels isn't something I'd take very seriously.

Just saying.

[Angels#1Fan]

19 minutes ago, Dodgerfan23 said:

Originally the article I wrote was going to be the first part of a 2 part series, with the second one being potential Mike Trout trades.

Better yet you could go over to the Dodger forum and write an article about trading Kershaw.

I'm sure there'd be lots of interest in that.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Segura needed help off the field in the 5th inning in Seattle after sliding into second FEET first. Minimum he has a twisted ankle. No safe way to slide...

[arch stanton]

8 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Segura needed help off the field in the 5th inning in Seattle after sliding into second FEET first. Minimum he has a twisted ankle. No safe way to slide...

Maybe not completely safe but safer. To begin with the slide should be intended to end at the base. When Trout hurt himself he would have ended up in left field if he hadn't chosen to use his thumb as a speedbrake. Check out the old Tim Raines popup slide or the guys who hold their gloves in an effort to keep the hands closed. The trend of waiting to last second to slide is the mail culprit

[beatlesrule]

Like I posted many times here at the deadline last year, I wanted the Angels to trade pretty much the whole team minus Trout of course and a few others like Simmons but it didn't happen and look at us now(Shoes value especially took a big hit)  We had no shot last year and needed everyone to be healthy and play out of their minds to even squeak into the playoffs this year.  If Arte isn't going to spend, at least get some younger talent and throw in the towel for this year.  Give us fans some kind of plan to look forward to.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

46 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Maybe not completely safe but safer. To begin with the slide should be intended to end at the base. When Trout hurt himself he would have ended up in left field if he hadn't chosen to use his thumb as a speedbrake. Check out the old Tim Raines popup slide or the guys who hold their gloves in an effort to keep the hands closed. The trend of waiting to last second to slide is the mail culprit

Popup slides will cause the runner to lose contact with the base momentarily and can become an out since replays.

[Ohtaniland]

Very quickly. Trout can't be traded because he has a no trade clause in his contract. If he's ever traded it will be because he asked to be traded. And everything Dodgerfan said is accurate. Mike Trout is responsible for 60%+ and everyone else is chopped liver.

 

[Dtwncbad]

There is no reason NO REASON to be idle at the trade deadline.  At this point I could not care less about losing 100 games.  I want to see progress in building a real team.

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Very quickly. Trout can't be traded because he has a no trade clause in his contract. If he's ever traded it will be because he asked to be traded. And everything Dodgerfan said is accurate. Mike Trout is responsible for 60%+ and everyone else is chopped liver.

 

Of course they can trade him, they just won't.  

[Ohtaniland]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Of course they can trade him, they just won't.  

Not without his exclusive permission and his personally selected destination. No trade clauses are great aren't they.

The Angels have zero authority in the matter. Mike Trout's only obligation is to finish his contract and then he can do whatever he wants to do after that. 

 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Not without his exclusive permission and his personally selected destination. No trade clauses are great aren't they.

The Angels have zero authority in the matter. Mike Trout's only obligation is to finish his contract and then he can do whatever he wants to do after that. 

 

You act like a player has never been traded when they've had a no trade clause.  It happens frequently.  If Mike doesn't want to be traded then I am guessing there is a better chance to sign him to an extension.  If a no trade clause is the only way to sign a great player, then you give him a no trade clause.  

Mike's only obligation is to finish his contract, the exact same obligation every other single player in baseball has.  this isn't the old days Claude where teams could keep players their entire careers whether the player liked it or not, despite you wishing it were true.  

[Ohtaniland]

28 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You act like a player has never been traded when they've had a no trade clause.  It happens frequently.  If Mike doesn't want to be traded then I am guessing there is a better chance to sign him to an extension.  If a no trade clause is the only way to sign a great player, then you give him a no trade clause.  

Mike's only obligation is to finish his contract, the exact same obligation every other single player in baseball has.  this isn't the old days Claude where teams could keep players their entire careers whether the player liked it or not, despite you wishing it were true.  

I'm just saying that Trout is in total control of his own destiny. His agent said that they were comfortable with the years of his deal because it will leave his options open. Trout will reward himself for his great service to Major League Baseball. We all know that MLB is a huge business that cashes in on Trout everyday but when all the dust settles you will see the business side of Mike Trout. You might not like it.

MLB can be cruel to some fans. The small market teams don't stand a chance to acquire Mike Trout. The big market teams will all be big players. Stradling you shouldn't get pushed out shape if in the eleventh hour Arte gets outbid for his services. We shouldn't judge Trout for that because he's earned the right to get the best deal for his future.

We have to wait and see but if he had to make that decision today I think even you would agree that he would probably choose to move on to a more competitive team. 

[Inside Pitch]

24 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

We have to wait and see but if he had to make that decision today I think even you would agree that he would probably choose to move on to a more competitive team. 

You should totally listen to Clod..  Afterall, he knows the "real" reason Maybin was traded and is on a first name basis with Mike Trout.   They routinely share their insights with each other and speak at length about each other's hopes, dreams, and desires.   Jenny err.... Mike... and him are like peas and carrots..

Or you can click on the ESPN team page, find the Spanish language article written while the team was in Miami (click translate) and you can read Mike Trout in his own words relay his feelings on things like the importance of stats, and the impact AP has had on him every single day.   Warning, reading what Mike Trout has to say about what Mike Trout thinks might lead you to believe the resident lump of clay doesnt know Mike Trout as well as he always tries to paint it but you are wrong..... he knows better than you.

 

[Stradling]

29 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm just saying that Trout is in total control of his own destiny. His agent said that they were comfortable with the years of his deal because it will leave his options open. Trout will reward himself for his great service to Major League Baseball. We all know that MLB is a huge business that cashes in on Trout everyday but when all the dust settles you will see the business side of Mike Trout. You might not like it.

MLB can be cruel to some fans. The small market teams don't stand a chance to acquire Mike Trout. The big market teams will all be big players. Stradling you shouldn't get pushed out shape if in the eleventh hour Arte gets outbid for his services. We shouldn't judge Trout for that because he's earned the right to get the best deal for his future.

We have to wait and see but if he had to make that decision today I think even you would agree that he would probably choose to move on to a more competitive team. 

I disagree, because I have no idea what he values.  What bothers me in the shitty spin you put on it multiple times a day, because you like being an instigator.  Being you for one day would ruin baseball for me forever.  

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You should totally listen to Clod..  Afterall, he knows the "real" reason Maybin was traded and is on a first name basis with Mike Trout.   They routinely share their insights with each other and speak at length about each other's hopes, dreams, and desires.   Jenny err.... Mike... and him are like peas and carrots..

Or you can click on the ESPN team page, find the Spanish language article written while the team was in Miami and you can read Mike Trout in his own words speaking on his feelings on things like the importance of stats,  and the impact AP has had on him every single day.   Warning, reading what Mike Trout has to say about what Mike Trout thinks might lead you to believe the resident lump of clay doesnt know Mike Trout as well as he always tries to paint it but you are wrong..... he knows better than you.

 

Or this. 

[Ohtaniland]

33 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You should totally listen to Clod..  Afterall, he knows the "real" reason Maybin was traded and is on a first name basis with Mike Trout.   They routinely share their insights with each other and speak at length about each other's hopes, dreams, and desires.   Jenny err.... Mike... and him are like peas and carrots..

Or you can click on the ESPN team page, find the Spanish language article written while the team was in Miami (click translate) and you can read Mike Trout in his own words speaking on his feelings on things like the importance of stats,  and the impact AP has had on him every single day.   Warning, reading what Mike Trout has to say about what Mike Trout thinks might lead you to believe the resident lump of clay doesnt know Mike Trout as well as he always tries to paint it but you are wrong..... he knows better than you.

 

Well IP you can continue to make it personal but I don't really care about your opinions on any matter. You're not always right so don't assume that everyone else is wrong because you have a different opinion. 

I will say it one more time. Mike Trout will choose what's best for best for him professionally and his family. I don't believe that the Angels will choose to provide that because it's going to be too expensive. I do think they'll try to salvage whatever they can via a trade if Trout is open to it. He has an agent, lawyers and family that will help him make that decision when the situation presents itself.

That's all. 

[Ohtaniland]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I disagree, because I have no idea what he values.  What bothers me in the shitty spin you put on it multiple times a day, because you like being an instigator.  Being you for one day would ruin baseball for me forever.  

Stradling just continue believing that everything is well with the Angels. That's all you need to do and all your wildest dreams will come true. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

Well IP you can continue to make it personal but I don't really care about your opinions on any matter. You're not always right so don't assume that everyone else is wrong because you have a different opinion. 

I will say it one more time. Mike Trout will choose what's best for best for him professionally and his family. I don't believe that the Angels will choose to provide that because it's going to be too expensive. I do think they'll try to salvage whatever they can via a trade if Trout is open to it. He has an agent, lawyers and family that will help him make his decision. 

That's all. 

So, pointing out you don't know what he is thinking = making it personal?   Mangina much?

You can continue to be a bitch that goes out of his way to antagonize people then cries about people making it personal when your idiocy is pointed out..  I don't really care about your opinions on any matter -- you've been proven to be talking out of your ass so much it's difficult to believe anyone would take you serious.   I'm sure I'm coming off as an asshole and that's fine -- just spare me the Joan of Arc routine.   Your posts gloating about how easy it is to rile people speaks to your motivations...  

But in regards to what's being said -- I offered no opinion -- I'm not arguing I'm right and you are wrong, there is nothing to be proven or disproved because you're just spewing opinions.  Unlike you I have never claimed to know what's in Mike Trouts head..  I have no idea what he will do -- it's liberating because I don't worry about things I cannot control.   You on the otherhand love to speak as if you're in the know..   You've done it repeatedly.  It's sad you can't tell the difference but, not really surprising.

Lastly you have repeated this same tripe about Trout doing what's best for him over and over and over -- it's nothing new and honestly, I don't think anyone here believes any different.   The problem is you will say it then turn around and then put your spin on what YOU think he will do in the next breath -- it's a ruse.   I'm not the boss of you, I'm not going to tell you what you can and cannot say...  But it gets old seeing you piss on people's legs and then telling them it's rain.   You aren't that smart, and nobody is that stupid. 

I hope you and I better understand each other now..   

 

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Stradling just continue believing that everything is well with the Angels. That's all you need to do and all your wildest dreams will come true. 

Yet another insipid connection..    Where the fuck has he said everything is well with the Angels?   The man offered no insights on what he thinks the situation is with the Angels.  He spoke to not knowing what Trout values

As usual someone says something and you try to spin the comments as meaning something completely removed from what they have said..  But hey -- I guess you know what Strad REALLY thinks because  well of course you do.   

I know, I know..  I need to keep from making it personal.   Pointing out your BS = making it personal.

[T.G.]

Thunderdome.... Two men enter. One man leaves.