Remember when Weaver was still our best pitcher during 2016?

[notherhalo]

Well, in this early 2017 he has the better ERA of Skaggs, Shoemaker, Chavez, Nolasco, Meyer and even still Ramirez

[eaterfan]

4 minutes ago, notherhalo said:

Well, in this early 2017 he has the better ERA of Skaggs, Shoemaker, Chavez, Nolasco, Meyer and even still Ramirez

I'm not sure you know what best means. Or perhaps you don't know what the goal of pitching is. The goal of pitching is to allow the fewest number of runs to your opponent. It's the opposite of hitting. You must have been confused when you saw Weaver led the AL in HR. It means HR allowed to the opponent. However the fact you sight his low ERA this season suggests it probably is that you aren't clear on what best means. So here it is:

adjective

 

1. 1.

   of the most excellent, effective, or desirable type or quality.

   "the best pitcher in the league"

   synonyms:

   finest, greatest, top, foremost, leading, preeminent, premier, prime, first, chief,principal, supreme, of the highest quality, superlative, par excellence, unrivaled,second to none, without equal, nonpareil, unsurpassed, peerless, matchless,unparalleled, unbeaten, unbeatable, optimum, optimal, ultimate, incomparable, ideal,perfect; More

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[Blarg]

Weaver, by a far margain, was the worst of the Angels starting options in 2016 outside of the 9 starts by Lincecum and 5 by Wright.

[Ohtaniland]

43 minutes ago, notherhalo said:

Well, in this early 2017 he has the better ERA of Skaggs, Shoemaker, Chavez, Nolasco, Meyer and even still Ramirez

It's April but Skaggs, Shoe, Chavez, Nolasco and Ramirez all deserve some early credit for their solid work. Weaver keeps working, that's what he does. Meyer is not a MLB pitcher IMHO.

[totdprods]

San Diego was the perfect destination for him. No pressure and a lot of games in good pitching environments. He wouldn't be faring much better than last year had he remained in Anaheim.

[nando714]

Last 11 games Angels starters have posted a ERA of 2.04 I believe

need to start on working on the homers allowed

[Dave Saltzer]

2 hours ago, notherhalo said:

Well, in this early 2017 he has the better ERA of Skaggs, Shoemaker, Chavez, Nolasco, Meyer and even still Ramirez

How long do you think that will last when he's giving up 2.7 HRs/9 IP? That's 0.8 HRs/9IP more than last year. And, that's not having to face a DH--he gets to face a pitcher every 9th batter. His FIP is way up (6.42 vs. 5.62) and again, that's facing pitchers. He's still not averaging past the 6th inning, which will become a massive burden on the pen, especially when he gets shelled by the 3rd inning.

 

I'm happy he's doing okay in San Diego--that was a good fit for him. But cherry pick a stat to make a false point.

[well_red]

I remember it well, the day was precisely June 19th vs Oakland.  He was lights out that day!  Insane # fly ball outs.

 

All joking aside, it's telling how many games he was giving up around 1 run per inning.  Impressive how he battled through the season, I remember a recent Dan Haren article where he was talking about how exhausting his last few seasons were, just spending hours upon hours preparing for starts with video because it was so difficult for him to get people out.

[notherhalo]

 

[notherhalo]

 

[Troll Daddy]

Weaver liked to party more that most players. If he can change his wicked ways and exercise/diet properly it will add a few years to his career. 

 

[Stradling]

Nope, his arm is not going to go back in time.  Sad because he is one of my favorite pitchers ever.  I remember arguing with Scotty over who was better Weaver or Daniel Wright.  I still think it was Weaver.

[totdprods]

5 hours ago, nando714 said:

need to start on working on the homers allowed

I think Weaver realized he wasn't going to be able to pitch a game better than 5-6 innings and 3-4 runs allowed with his current stuff, so he went into games pitching with a hope and a prayer that he'd claw his way into that result, and if it meant he gave up four solo home runs scattered over the start of the game, he'd trust in the offense and pen to take it from there. Obviously, that strategy is walking a very fine line and when it blew up, it did so in a big way. That's not saying he's a better pitcher than what the results are showing, but I think there was an element of self-sacrifice and an attempt to pull off the pitching equivalent of a 'controlled burn' for Weave there the last couple seasons. 

 

[UndertheHalo]

Weaver isn't in any good teams starting rotation.  I do think he's able to get a couple of outs tho and therefore could be useful out of the pen.  Too bad he doesn't seem to agree tho.  Would probably add a few more paychecks for himself. 

[Angel Oracle]

Overs/unders on walks in Meyer's next start:  5  (OVER)

[JustATroutFan]

Weaver doesn't deserve his 3.91 ERA right now since his FIP is 6.42. Getting lucky big time. No way is that ERA going to remain that low with that FIP.

On top of that, Weaver wasn't the Angels best pitcher in 2016. He was far from it. ERA and ERA+ were both really bad. Shoemaker was the Angels best starter last year.

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Weaver isn't in any good teams starting rotation.  I do think he's able to get a couple of outs tho and therefore could be useful out of the pen.  Too bad he doesn't seem to agree tho.  Would probably add a few more paychecks for himself. 

I don't see a single indicator that Weaver would be any better in the pen. He doesn't strike anybody out, he allows too many hits, too many homers - at best his walk rate is passable in the pen, but not enough so to counteract his weaknesses. He's slightly better facing opponents the first time through, but again, not enough so to counteract his deficiencies. 

Weaver's only source of value at this point is that he is a very bankable source of innings. No, he isn't going to give you 6+ innings for 25+ starts, but you can expect 30 starts and 180 innings from him pretty reliably. Aside from a brief DL trip here or there and his broken elbow a couple years back, he's been ridiculously durable for a SP in this day and age. For most teams, the quality of those innings isn't worth the scant value he brings, but for a team as young as the Padres, it's a pretty big deal. 

[UndertheHalo]

20 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don't see a single indicator that Weaver would be any better in the pen. He doesn't strike anybody out, he allows too many hits, too many homers - at best his walk rate is passable in the pen, but not enough so to counteract his weaknesses. He's slightly better facing opponents the first time through, but again, not enough so to counteract his deficiencies. 

Weaver's only source of value at this point is that he is a very bankable source of innings. No, he isn't going to give you 6+ innings for 25+ starts, but you can expect 30 starts and 180 innings from him pretty reliably. Aside from a brief DL trip here or there and his broken elbow a couple years back, he's been ridiculously durable for a SP in this day and age. For most teams, the quality of those innings isn't worth the scant value he brings, but for a team as young as the Padres, it's a pretty big deal. 

You don't think he's useful to come in and get a couple of outs ? I Know u referenced the numbers but still just seems that way. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[totdprods]

26 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

You don't think he's useful to come in and get a couple of outs ? I Know u referenced the numbers but still just seems that way. 

The only real advantage I'd see is that his pitches will so sharply contrast with that of most relief corps that it'd offer up a pretty stark difference late in the game and throw off some timing. Otherwise, no, I don't really think he'd be very effective in relief. I'd imagine he'd actually be worse. The margin of error for relievers is typically pretty thin, and Weaver simply allows too many hits, home runs, and walks without having much in his arsenal to fall back on when he needs an out. Even if working out of the pen allowed him to dial up his fastball, it'd still top out at what, 87 at best?

We saw it last season on full display - every third or fourth start, he'd manage to at least limit the damage long enough for the offense to carry the game by keeping the opposing team off-balance and in the yard, but most often, it was batting practice and a hope that the offense would keep up. I think he managed to pull off quality starts in 30-40% of his games - if a comparable measurement existed for relievers, I don't think any reliever would last more than week on a MLB roster if they were blowing games at a 60-70% clip. Even your first-man out 6th inning types, on average teams, are usually good enough to at least hold a lead 50-60% of the time.

I still think his best source of value is simply eating innings for a rebuilding team. We know Weaver too well to doubt that he commands a presence in the clubhouse still, and smart rookies will watch the way he goes about things. They'll learn that you can still succeed long after your stuff has disappeared if you truly learn how to pitch and how to adjust and adapt as your stuff leaves you. It's not quantifiable, but for the Padres, that isn't necessary. They need someone who can eat innings so their young arms can skip starts or go back to the minors to work out a mechanical issue rather than gutting it through in the bigs.

[eligrba]

No.

[jchalos89]

He came down from his prime too quickly. Feels bad for the dead arm he's struggling with. He earned 150 wins for the Angels before leaving. I will always support him no matter what team he's pitching for. I just hope he can return to the big A and retire as an Angel at the end of his career. Even if it's just one day contract

[Blarg]

11 hours ago, nando714 said:

Last 11 games Angels starters have posted a ERA of 2.04 I believe

need to start on working on the homers allowed

Agreed.

[Amazing Larry]

8 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Weaver liked to party more that most players. If he can change his wicked ways and exercise/diet properly it will add a few years to his career. 

 

LMAO! Are you serious?

[Richard]

3 more hr's given up tonight

[HaloNArizona]

10 HRS

15 RBI

14 K's

.546 Slg

.825 OPS

 

As a comparison (not that it is great), but Nolasco has allowed 7 HR's and Shoe 6