What would it take to make the 2017 season a success?

[Ohtaniland]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

this is another Carole 'Calzone' Moreno fart in a stiff wind.  

The yankees had the highest payroll 14 years in a row from 2000-2013.  

The highest the Angels have ever been is 3rd (in 2006) @103 mil.  That year the Yankees had a payrolll of 194 mil.  

Arte's free agent plan didn't work because they chose the wrong players.  He chose the wrong players.  For the wrong reasons.  

He's not steinbrenner and never has been.  Every free agent makes what the market dictates.  Some perform to that level and most don't.  It's the price of doing business.  Arte is no different than any other large market owner other than his choices have sucked the last few years.  

The notion that the players need to play to win is crap.  As if they don't.  

Let the baseball people pick the players.  

The team has some talent.  It could be better with better if Arte had made better choices.  It could be better if Arte had given some payroll flexibility to his baseball people.  

To assume that previous bad decisions automatically dictate bad decisions in the future is stupid.  

 

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yep, my favorite is when Claude says in one post, they need to try harder, but then when I point out they need more talent, he says that the players don't just tell the fans to go home because they suck.  That basically implies that the players do care and are trying, so yea, once again Claude is being Claude and pretending it is something other than talent.  

You guys are implying that the talent we have including the additions is not good enough to compete. Doc makes it perfectly clear that Pujols was a bad decision. I've been saying that for years. As long as Pujols is in the middle of that lineup joined at the hip with Trout we won't win a championship. Besides sucking up a nice chunk of the budget in his first five seasons here he's had knee surgery, hamstrings, hernia ball, calves, Plantars Faciitis in both feet. He's already indicated that he wants to play more first base than DH in 2017 so Sosh has to plan around Albert's own plan again. I think we have enough talent but.....the teams leadership is a problem. 

This team doesn't need more free agents, it needs a new manager. We could've signed Encarnacion, Bautista and Pujols still would've been hitting 3rd or 4th right behind Trout. It's the Angels culture of veteran players controlling the manager that Sosh refuses to change. 

I'm waiting for the offseason announcement of the removal of the walking boot because it's really big important news. 

I'm still rooting for the team but it won't do much with Pujols and Sosh guiding the ship. 

 

[Stradling]

trollin trollin trollin. 

[Ohtaniland]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

trollin trollin trollin. 

No Strad, its not trolling. I see post after post about how we are going to suck because we won't sign more new free agents. The problem we have is with the free agents that we've already signed. New free agent signings won't make them go away. 

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

 

You guys are implying that the talent we have including the additions is not good enough to compete. Doc makes it perfectly clear that Pujols was a bad decision. I've been saying that for years. As long as Pujols is in the middle of that lineup joined at the hip with Trout we won't win a championship. Besides sucking up a nice chunk of the budget in his first five seasons here he's had knee surgery, hamstrings, hernia ball, calves, Plantars Faciitis in both feet. He's already indicated that he wants to play more first base than DH in 2017 so Sosh has to plan around Albert's own plan again. I think we have enough talent but.....its leadership is a problem. 

This team doesn't need more free agents, it needs a new manager. We could've signed Encarnacion, Bautista and Pujols still would've been hitting 3rd or 4th right behind Trout. It's the Angels culture of veteran players controlling the manager that Sosh refuses to change. 

Waiting for the offseason announcement of the removal of the walking boot because it's really big important news. 

I'm still rooting for the team but it won't do much with Pujols and Sosh guiding the ship. 

 

Pujols and Trout combined for  ... probably one of the top 3/4 hitter combo in baseball.

219 rbis 194 runs 60 HRs

You can blame Scioscia all you want ... but you're wrong. Pujols will continue to bat behind Trout until they sign find someone better.

There a lot of blame to go around but Scioscia, Pujols, and Trout aren't the problem. 

If the team can stay healthy ... it should be a fun season. 

 

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

No Strad, its not trolling. I see post after post about how we are going to suck because we won't sign more new free agents. The problem we have is with the free agents that we've already signed. New free agent signings won't make them go away. 

Yes Claude it is trolling.  You start your bullshit with, "they just need to try harder" as if that is a real life grown up opinion.  Now it's back to "free agents are bad".  Your act is disgustingly old.  You are a troll that won't have conversations, you state your opinion over and over again.  When you're called out on it you go to your Rolodex of Claude responses, which everyone knows.  Albert sucks and is overpaid, Arte and the city of Anaheim, Arte has spent enough, Trout wants to be traded, Trout window, and all the others you throw out when you want to "change" your narrative.  

This team if healthy won't suck but they certainly could be better with a couple bullpen arms.  

[Ohtaniland]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes Claude it is trolling.  You start your bullshit with, "they just need to try harder" as if that is a real life grown up opinion.  Now it's back to "free agents are bad".  Your act is disgustingly old.  You are a troll that won't have conversations, you state your opinion over and over again.  When you're called out on it you go to your Rolodex of Claude responses, which everyone knows.  Albert sucks and is overpaid, Arte and the city of Anaheim, Arte has spent enough, Trout wants to be traded, Trout window, and all the others you throw out when you want to "change" your narrative.  

This team if healthy won't suck but they certainly could be better with a couple bullpen arms.  

Let's just see how it plays out Stradling. No need to make it personal. One thing is for sure, if the Angels win or lose, nothing we say will have anything to do with the outcome. Our opinions mean nothing on the scoreboard. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Let's just see how it plays out Stradling. No need to make it personal. One thing is for sure, if the Angels win or lose, nothing we say will have anything to do with the outcome. Our opinions mean nothing on the scoreboard. 

Oh I know.  I'm not the one that talks about the arrogance after signing Albert like it means something.  

[Ohtaniland]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Oh I know.  I'm not the one that talks about the arrogance after signing Albert like it means something.  

We witnessed a cat jump to his death in RF because of this teams fail. You can't deny that. 

[Troll Daddy]

The team didn't suck after the break. They played above .500 baseball. 

You add Maybin, Revere, Espinoza, Maldonado, Richards, Chavez, and Street ... minus Weaver (worst pitcher in baseball) and Lincecum, then the team got a total makeover. 

I'm not so sure there's another bullpen arm on the way. There's a ton of possibilities to work with now. Great if they sign someone but not sweating it. 

[Stradling]

Dude that cat saw it coming from a mile away. 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, CALZONE said:

No Strad, its not trolling. I see post after post about how we are going to suck because we won't sign more new free agents. The problem we have is with the free agents that we've already signed. New free agent signings won't make them go away. 

But they could contribute.  If a GM does his due diligence and determines that a FA would help this team tremendously, you understand how that's different than Arte seeing Albert or Josh as fan draws?  

The Albert signing I get.  Dude was a generational player putting up inner circle hall of fame numbers.  Then he magically turned into a different guy.  Becoming a hitter unlike anything he had ever done to that point in his career and anything unlike anyone with his credentials had ever done.  Even with that, he's actually held his own relative to his age the last two years.  I can't blame Arte for using a chunk of his budget on a franchise player

The Hamilton signing and the aftermath as a result was the worst signing in the history of baseball.  

For you to lump contracts like 3/28 for Nova or 4/64 for Turner as anything close to similar as either of those contracts is absurd.  To assume that any free agent contract - large or small - would turn out the same is horribly short sighted.  

Free agent signings as vetted by actual baseball people could have gone a long way to improve this team but it's moot.  

Again, because you've had trouble getting this to sink in, Arte didn't spend like a drunken sailor or go all 'steinbrenner'.  He spent within the confines of a budget.  One aided by a multi-billion dollar tv deal.  One that he is still sticking to.  The only difference between what he did then and what he is dong now is that he appears to be letting his baseball people control the baseball.  

Hopefully next year, when there is some room in the budget, he will let his baseball people choose how to spend it.  

If you were to try to sell me on the fact that you didn't want Arte to spend now so he could save his money for next year or the year after because he's got a budget that he is gonna stick to then I could at least accept that.  

But your narrative is that signing a free agent is a waste of money no matter what and Arte should keep his money.  So do me a favor and lay out who has been consistently competitive in a big market without spending money on free agents.  

[Ohtaniland]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

But they could contribute.  If a GM does his due diligence and determines that a FA would help this team tremendously, you understand how that's different than Arte seeing Albert or Josh as fan draws?  

The Albert signing I get.  Dude was a generational player putting up inner circle hall of fame numbers.  Then he magically turned into a different guy.  Becoming a hitter unlike anything he had ever done to that point in his career and anything unlike anyone with his credentials had ever done.  Even with that, he's actually held his own relative to his age the last two years.  I can't blame Arte for using a chunk of his budget on a franchise player

The Hamilton signing and the aftermath as a result was the worst signing in the history of baseball.  

For you to lump contracts like 3/28 for Nova or 4/64 for Turner as anything close to similar as either of those contracts is absurd.  To assume that any free agent contract - large or small - would turn out the same is horribly short sighted.  

Free agent signings as vetted by actual baseball people could have gone a long way to improve this team but it's moot.  

Again, because you've had trouble getting this to sink in, Arte didn't spend like a drunken sailor or go all 'steinbrenner'.  He spent within the confines of a budget.  One aided by a multi-billion dollar tv deal.  One that he is still sticking to.  The only difference between what he did then and what he is dong now is that he appears to be letting his baseball people control the baseball.  

Hopefully next year, when there is some room in the budget, he will let his baseball people choose how to spend it.  

If you were to try to sell me on the fact that you didn't want Arte to spend now so he could save his money for next year or the year after because he's got a budget that he is gonna stick to then I could at least accept that.  

But your narrative is that signing a free agent is a waste of money no matter what and Arte should keep his money.  So do me a favor and lay out who has been consistently competitive in a big market without spending money on free agents.  

I will say this. Turner and Nova are both huge mistakes. Just watch how quick they drop off in production. 

Would it make everybody mad if Arte trades Trout for a ton of prospects and goes full blown Steinbrenner and signs Harper? I would like nothing more than to have a whole new team infused with new talented youth instead of everybody's castaways.