Do you think we'll exercise the option on Yunel Escobar?

[ScruffytheJanitor]

We pick it up, regardless, but it's interesting that we haven't. We have to be shaking the bushes, hoping a mid-level starter falls out. 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

We pick it up, regardless, but it's interesting that we haven't. We have to be shaking the bushes, hoping a mid-level starter falls out. 

Yeah, it's the only explanation as to why it hasn't been exercised yet.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

Just now, totdprods said:

Yeah, it's the only explanation as to why it hasn't been exercised yet.

With our luck, the Giants are holding up a huge "MATT CAIN AIN'T BROKE HE'S SANDBAGGING" sign outside of Eppler's office. 

[VariousCrap]

56 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

 If you didn't intent on exercising his option, then why didn't they just trade him at the deadline and get whatever possible for him?

Jeff Fletcher said that literally no team was interested in him.

 

 

[VariousCrap]

36 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Marte is every bit as bad defensively as Escobar. Currently, the only good defensive 3rd baseman they have is Cowart. And i think the org would like to dump him [Cowart] too.

Marte is better than Escobar.  He may not be good, but he is better that Escobar.

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

Jeff Fletcher said that literally no team was interested in him.

Recently, or in July?

[tomsred]

I really don't think the team loses whether they trade him or keep him.  This will almost assuredly be his last year anyway.  If he hits like last year, he's probably a bargain at that price, and the team can work around it.  By 2018 I hope we have a better solution anyway.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Recently, or in July?

At deadline

 

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, VariousCrap said:

Marte is better than Escobar.  He may not be good, but he is better that Escobar.

Not saying much. He has shown nothing to be able to say he is better than Escobar

[Angel Oracle]

Is Escobar's so-so clubhouse presence causing the lack of interest from other teams?

[Oz27]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

Not saying much. He has shown nothing to be able to say he is better than Escobar

Besides, you know, being a better hitter, fielder and base runner in 2016.

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Marte is every bit as bad defensively as Escobar. Currently, the only good defensive 3rd baseman they have is Cowart. And i think the org would like to dump him [Cowart] too.

I agree ... although, I would give the edge to Escobar defensively. 

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I agree ... although, I would give the edge to Escobar defensively. 

so you disagree 

[Troll Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

so you disagree 

I agree that their both bad defensively ...

[VariousCrap]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

Recently, or in July?

 

He said it back in July and he recently said he doesn't think that has changed at all.

 

 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Is Escobar's so-so clubhouse presence causing the lack of interest from other teams?

it's not so-so.  It's cray-cray.  Dude it nuts.  Plus, he's effectively a DH.  

He'd actually make a solid util guy, but I bet he pitches a fit if he doesn't play everyday.  

He's probably overrated by people around here.  Myself included.  He get's on base, but he's actually a pretty bad baseball player otherwise.  He's a poor defender.  A bad base runner.  And he's nuts.  

The more I think about it, he's probably good to get us a fringy major league reliever.  

I am trying to figure out who might be a good match for him.  Probably would have to be a team that thinks they could contend.  How about we sign Turner and then trade him to the Doyers?  

Not really seeing many options.  

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's not so-so.  It's cray-cray.  Dude it nuts.  Plus, he's effectively a DH.  

He'd actually make a solid util guy, but I bet he pitches a fit if he doesn't play everyday.  

He's probably overrated by people around here.  Myself included.  He get's on base, but he's actually a pretty bad baseball player otherwise.  He's a poor defender.  A bad base runner.  And he's nuts.  

The more I think about it, he's probably good to get us a fringy major league reliever.  

I am trying to figure out who might be a good match for him.  Probably would have to be a team that thinks they could contend.  How about we sign Turner and then trade him to the Doyers?  

Not really seeing many options.  

I imagine they're just checking in with teams making decisions on their players with options - much like the Royals declining Volquez's option - and reaching out seeing if anyone is down to swap Escobar in return for someone they're declining.

What will be telling is if they decline the option by the end of the weekend regardless of any trade.

[Oz27]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's not so-so.  It's cray-cray.  Dude it nuts.  Plus, he's effectively a DH.  

He'd actually make a solid util guy, but I bet he pitches a fit if he doesn't play everyday.  

He's probably overrated by people around here.  Myself included.  He get's on base, but he's actually a pretty bad baseball player otherwise.  He's a poor defender.  A bad base runner.  And he's nuts.  

The more I think about it, he's probably good to get us a fringy major league reliever.  

I am trying to figure out who might be a good match for him.  Probably would have to be a team that thinks they could contend.  How about we sign Turner and then trade him to the Doyers?  

Not really seeing many options.  

I am increasingly a believer in this line of thinking. People quote his on base percentage to say he was the best leadoff hitter we've had since Figgins (even though that isn't close to true because Trout spent the early part of his career leading off) and, as great as his on-base percentage is, it's his only skill. He isn't even that good a hitter - he is only eight percent better than league average and that isn't good enough to make him useful at 1B or DH if a team thought he wasn't good enough to play 3B. His baserunning is bad. His fielding at 3B is awful. He clearly has attitude problems. His 1.6 WAR indicates he was a below average regular - even though his defensive value rating from Fangraphs is a lot kinder than a simple 'eye test' would say was justified. On top of all of that, he is 34 and that is an age lots of players decline at (his hitting did drop off considerably from 2015 to 2016 too).

Put it this way, if you were a rival GM would you look at that and give up anything more than a fringe bullpen arm for him? Would you give us a starter? I sure as hell wouldn't. I thought our best chance was trading him was finding a team at the deadline this year which desperately needed a third baseman. That didn't happen, obviously.

At this point, does he even project better than Marte? I mentioned earlier ... Marte was a better hitter, fielder at 3B and baserunner than Escobar was in 2016. If we think Marte comes close to replicating that production in 2016, he is probably a better player than Escobar.

[totdprods]

38 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Put it this way, if you were a rival GM would you look at that and give up anything more than a fringe bullpen arm for him? Would you give us a starter? I sure as hell wouldn't. I thought our best chance was trading him was finding a team at the deadline this year which desperately needed a third baseman. That didn't happen, obviously.

At this point, does he even project better than Marte? I mentioned earlier ... Marte was a better hitter, fielder at 3B and baserunner than Escobar was in 2016. If we think Marte comes close to replicating that production in 2016, he is probably a better player than Escobar.

I brought it up elsewhere, but I think part of why he wasn't moved in July also was because Marte hadn't quite broken out enough by that point to prove himself a viable replacement, and that there really wasn't a team out there that needed him. Only a couple teams in contention had an opening and need around that time. The Royals fell out, the Mets landed Jose Reyes for nothing, and the Giants got a better, younger, cheaper, more versatile player in Nunez.

I do agree that he probably isn't worth more than a fringe prospect though, or maybe a fit for a team looking to shed a bad contract or swap an even money player about to be declined.

That said, there could still be a team who looks at him much like we did - a one dimensional, high contact lead-off stopgap. Maybe the Braves in exchange for picking up Kemp or Markakis? Maybe the White Sox if they go through with a rebuild and trade Frazier? Toronto if they lose Bautista, Encarnacion, and Saunders, using him as a DH/UT IF? Tampa as a 1B?

The Brewers look a little thin at 3B and may non-tender Gennett. That could be a good one for one deal, but the Halos would need to eat salary.

[totdprods]

I also don't see the harm in keeping Escobar either, unless we have bigger and better plans that involve bringing in a FA 3B or needing every penny we can scrape up for FAs overall. I wouldn't be disappointed to see Escobar and Maybin in front of Trout and some legit depth with Marte on the bench. If Yunel isn't worth more than a fringe prospect now, chances are that's what he'll be worth next July. Maybe we get lucky and a 3B get hurt in June and someone jumps on Yunel. 

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

I am increasingly a believer in this line of thinking. People quote his on base percentage to say he was the best leadoff hitter we've had since Figgins (even though that isn't close to true because Trout spent the early part of his career leading off) and, as great as his on-base percentage is, it's his only skill. He isn't even that good a hitter - he is only eight percent better than league average and that isn't good enough to make him useful at 1B or DH if a team thought he wasn't good enough to play 3B. His baserunning is bad. His fielding at 3B is awful. He clearly has attitude problems. His 1.6 WAR indicates he was a below average regular - even though his defensive value rating from Fangraphs is a lot kinder than a simple 'eye test' would say was justified. On top of all of that, he is 34 and that is an age lots of players decline at (his hitting did drop off considerably from 2015 to 2016 too).

Put it this way, if you were a rival GM would you look at that and give up anything more than a fringe bullpen arm for him? Would you give us a starter? I sure as hell wouldn't. I thought our best chance was trading him was finding a team at the deadline this year which desperately needed a third baseman. That didn't happen, obviously.

At this point, does he even project better than Marte? I mentioned earlier ... Marte was a better hitter, fielder at 3B and baserunner than Escobar was in 2016. If we think Marte comes close to replicating that production in 2016, he is probably a better player than Escobar.

The idea behind Marte succeeding is just more fun in my opinion.  But he really is the better player.  Plus, at not even 26, he's got a really good chance to get better.  

[Rico]

On 11/3/2016 at 3:34 PM, totdprods said:

'16 Cameron Maybin would be a damn good lead-off hitter.

Even better, how about having both these guys at the top of the order?

[Ohtaniland]

14 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Is Escobar's so-so clubhouse presence causing the lack of interest from other teams?

There are a few marbles missing for sure. 3 different teams the past 3 seasons is a good indicator. Oh and he just turned 34.

[Oz27]

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

I also don't see the harm in keeping Escobar either, unless we have bigger and better plans that involve bringing in a FA 3B or needing every penny we can scrape up for FAs overall. I wouldn't be disappointed to see Escobar and Maybin in front of Trout and some legit depth with Marte on the bench. If Yunel isn't worth more than a fringe prospect now, chances are that's what he'll be worth next July. Maybe we get lucky and a 3B get hurt in June and someone jumps on Yunel. 

I suppose the harm is if we are close to the tax, would it be better for us to have spent that money elsewhere? The more I think about this, the more I'm wondering if it is not as obvious a decision as it first seemed. We have an internal option who might actually be better, for one. The apparent lack of trade interest in July could have them worried nobody else would actually take on the money if they wanted to deal him. There are also a couple of other possible factors that aren't clear to us. Firstly, we are talking about a player who is a bad defender, makes pretty regular mental mistakes, isn't a good baserunner and seemingly doesn't always work as hard as he should. That seems to me to be exactly the sort of player who would drive Scioscia crazy. Also, the defensive data teams would have is better than what we've got so it's possible they would look at Escobar as an even worse defender than most of us do.

Some of that is speculative and the last two points could be totally wrong. I still think they'll pick up the option but I wouldn't be totally stunned if they didn't, the more that I consider it.

[totdprods]

Yeah, that extra $6m could net you Boone Logan, or a couple old, cheap vet relievers, or another UT IF, or another C, without eating into the rest of the money we have available. Definitely agree that it isn't an obvious choice. 

One thing I've noticed this offseason reading all of the different ideas that everyone is posting is that this team has way, way, way more flexibility in how they approach building the roster compared to last year. Part of that is the fact we have more money to spend, but still feels noteworthy. Eppler's roster feels a lot more malleable now than it did this time last year.