Is being this bad a blessing?

[John Stellman]

Being bad is never a blessing. Doesn't matter the rationale or how you look at it.  Bad is not good! 

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You're plan is on the same path as the Oakland A's.  It's not a terrible idea but we are the LA Angels. A large market team with a insane TV deal in hand. The team needs to stay at the cap regardless if you rebuild.

Spending money in player development and international signings should be done regardless. 

 

So when your making budgets in your household you say well I don't need 4 new toilets and 5 new garbage disposals but since we as a family or business didn't spend up to what we did the year before let's just buy stuff to buy stuff because why not? money saved can be other wise utilized in other areas building state of the facilities in other countries to get our farm better developing players in other countries. Saving money for something that's right not something that's just garbage for the sake of spending money. That's insane. There isn't any free agents this offseason worth it. 

I love that the way you want the Angels to do better is simply just spend money it should fix everything 

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

So when your making budgets in your household you say well I don't need 4 new toilets and 5 new garbage disposals but since we as a family or business didn't spend up to what we did the year before let's just buy stuff to buy stuff because why not? money saved can be other wise utilized in other areas building state of the facilities in other countries to get our farm better developing players in other countries. Saving money for something that's right not something that's just garbage for the sake of spending money. That's insane. There isn't any free agents this offseason worth it. 

I love that the way you want the Angels to do better is simply just spend money it should fix everything 

Kevin, this is a discussion. Our opinions in the real world concerning Angel baseball are meaningless. 

No need to take anything personal.

Yes, I believe the Angels have a obligation to put a competitive team on the field. There is a very large fan base to appease. Let's not forget the 3 billion dollars we took from the cable company. It's a sales game .., tickets and viewership. 

I'm sure the Dodger ownership will be happy for us to rebuild. There's no guarantees in rebuilding ... it could end up a disaster. 

I don't think our hero would be too happy with the idea of tearing down the team. 

 

 

 

[kevinb]

29 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Kevin, this is a discussion. Our opinions in the real world concerning Angel baseball are meaningless. 

No need to take anything personal.

Yes, I believe the Angels have a obligation to put a competitive team on the field. There is a very large fan base to appease. Let's not forget the 3 billion dollars we took from the cable company. It's a sales game .., tickets and viewership. 

I'm sure the Dodger ownership will be happy for us to rebuild. There's no guarantees in rebuilding ... it could end up a disaster. 

I don't think our hero would be too happy with the idea of tearing down the team. 

 

 

 

I made it personal to put it into perspective I don't know how u saw any of that as going at you with a personal attack. And the 3 billion dollar deal which I thought it was 1-2 billion was already spent so there is absolutely no obligation for the Angels to spend any money. The money they got from fox is already spent. Also who is the hero you speak of. I don't consider an athlete a hero Trouts good but being good at baseball doesn't make him anything other than a good athlete.  

[mulwin444]

There is no one they should be investing money on in the 2017 free agent class.  Unless they trade with another team to take on some pricy talent, there is no reason to spend money beyond arbitration raises.  You don't spend money just to spend it...they need a plan to become relevant again after buying their way into mediocrity.  It's going to take a few seasons but, if done right, they have resources few teams possess and they can reverse their fortunes  

[Angelsjunky]

It is also worth pointing out that the Angels have a slightly below average offense, and they haven't had any significant injuries to their best hitters. The point being, even if the rotation had been a lot healthier and the pitching above average, this would still probably be a .500 ball-club, maybe a bit better. In other words, we can't blame the Angels' suckitude only on injuries - the talent just isn't there to be a legit contender. Maybe a wildcard candidate if everyone is healthy and playing well.

Or let's put it another way, to support Doc's overall point. This team is probably headed for 65-70 wins. With a healthy Richards, Heaney, Wilson, and Tropeano, maybe 80-85 wins were more likely. 80-85 wins leads to the mentality of "with just a few tweaks we can win 85-90 and compete for the wildcard, or with a couple big splashes we can get to 90+ wins." But the thing is, that's been the organizational attitude for the last half decade and it hasn't exactly panned out well. Winning only 65-70 games should lead to a wake-up call and perhaps a real and needed overhaul of the organization from the ground up.

Or to quote the Jack Nicholson Joker: "This [team] needs an enema!"

 

[Ohtaniland]

5 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

It is also worth pointing out that the Angels have a slightly below average offense, and they haven't had any significant injuries to their best hitters. The point being, even if the rotation had been a lot healthier and the pitching above average, this would still probably be a .500 ball-club, maybe a bit better. In other words, we can't blame the Angels' suckitude only on injuries - the talent just isn't there to be a legit contender. Maybe a wildcard candidate if everyone is healthy and playing well.

Or let's put it another way, to support Doc's overall point. This team is probably headed for 65-70 wins. With a healthy Richards, Heaney, Wilson, and Tropeano, maybe 80-85 wins were more likely. 80-85 wins leads to the mentality of "with just a few tweaks we can win 85-90 and compete for the wildcard, or with a couple big splashes we can get to 90+ wins." But the thing is, that's been the organizational attitude for the last half decade and it hasn't exactly panned out well. Winning only 65-70 games should lead to a wake-up call and perhaps a real and needed overhaul of the organization from the ground up.

Or to quote the Jack Nicholson Joker: "This [team] needs an enema!"

 

That 90+ win scenario requires a lot of things to go right and that rarely happens. They need to build a much deeper roster to get through the unforeseen bumps in the road.

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

That 90+ win scenario requires a lot of things to go right and that rarely happens. They need to build a much deeper roster to get through the unforeseen bumps in the road.

90 wins from the current team sans injury would have been a stretch.  90 wins had we made some significant additions in the off season would have be feasible.  More so than needing everything to go right.  I know you have FA/trade PTSD as do most of us from our recent struggles in that area, but there are more that 20 players who moved teams this past year who could have really helped.  

It's all ghosts of opportunities passed though as our current rash of injuries made the FO and Arte right not to add big money even if it was for the wrong reasons.  But it can help and we shouldn't be afraid of it in 2018/19 if it seems that the major league club becomes worth investing in.  

Again, a rebuild doesn't have to happen overnight.  You can take it piece by piece as long as you pick the right time for the right piece.  When you have Trout, it's smart to make a couple moves and then step back to re-evaluate where you stand.  By this time next year, maybe we'll have added a top 5 draft pick and maybe Thaiss will be cruising through the minors.  Maybe a couple other guys will emerge.  Maybe Skaggs and Trop and Shoe will solidify the rotation.  I am not saying all those things will happen, but just pulling the plug can be even more catastrophic than not taking advantage of your assets.  

We, as fans, are upset at the current state of affairs and we want change.  As fans, we are impatient and we want things to start getting better as soon as possible.  But you need to be thoughtful.  Make a move, take a look.  Make another move and take another look.  You don't want to miss a chance to move a guy, but you also don't want to miss a chance to keep one.  

We will know very soon what Billy thinks of this team.  The additions of Simmons and Escobar make me think that the marching orders for him are no different than they were for Reagins or Dipoto.  It's going to get very interesting in the near future.  I think our first clue will be who we get for Escobar should we decide to move him.  Whether its the best AA prospects he can get, or a fringe guy that has a chance to help us for 2017.  

[Ohtaniland]

7 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Does it matter if Trout played in the playoffs??

Yes, Trout did play in the playoffs. And we got swept. And he played terrible. Honestly, Calzone made a point... We aren't a great franchise. We have no history. Trout would have no problem leaving us. However, I still think we can get Trout to stay. Calzone is the worst of all pessimists and I think we could be a good team before 5 years. But realistically, no one knows what's going to happen with this Angel team. All we know is that we are currently in terrible shape....unless you're one of those delusional fanboys.

Yes I'm tougher to convince than the average person. The thing that we can't predict is what Trout wants to do with his baseball future. We do know that Anaheim is not a hitters ballpark. We do know that Trout is from back east. We do know that the Angels have continually fumbled the football since Trout's arrival. We do know that Trout would rake in ballparks like Boston, New York, Baltimore or Philly. We do know that players legacies are judged by how well they do in post season (Mr October) play. No one here can convince me that Trout is fine with just playing great baseball as an individual and collecting a check. That guy has the winners edge and probably hates losing. He's played five seasons and he only has three losing playoff games under his belt. 

[Ohtaniland]

35 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

90 wins from the current team sans injury would have been a stretch.  90 wins had we made some significant additions in the off season would have be feasible.  More so than needing everything to go right.  I know you have FA/trade PTSD as do most of us from our recent struggles in that area, but there are more that 20 players who moved teams this past year who could have really helped.  

It's all ghosts of opportunities passed though as our current rash of injuries made the FO and Arte right not to add big money even if it was for the wrong reasons.  But it can help and we shouldn't be afraid of it in 2018/19 if it seems that the major league club becomes worth investing in.  

Again, a rebuild doesn't have to happen overnight.  You can take it piece by piece as long as you pick the right time for the right piece.  When you have Trout, it's smart to make a couple moves and then step back to re-evaluate where you stand.  By this time next year, maybe we'll have added a top 5 draft pick and maybe Thaiss will be cruising through the minors.  Maybe a couple other guys will emerge.  Maybe Skaggs and Trop and Shoe will solidify the rotation.  I am not saying all those things will happen, but just pulling the plug can be even more catastrophic than not taking advantage of your assets.  

We, as fans, are upset at the current state of affairs and we want change.  As fans, we are impatient and we want things to start getting better as soon as possible.  But you need to be thoughtful.  Make a move, take a look.  Make another move and take another look.  You don't want to miss a chance to move a guy, but you also don't want to miss a chance to keep one.  

We will know very soon what Billy thinks of this team.  The additions of Simmons and Escobar make me think that the marching orders for him are no different than they were for Reagins or Dipoto.  It's going to get very interesting in the near future.  I think our first clue will be who we get for Escobar should we decide to move him.  Whether its the best AA prospects he can get, or a fringe guy that has a chance to help us for 2017.  

This team has a lot of holes to fill the next five seasons. We don't have a true Ace. The bullpen is bad. The so-called good years of Albert are gone. Calhoun and Simmons are in their prime right now but won't be in five years. There's so much that needs to be done and the list keeps growing.