Clark calls out Arte

[Ohtaniland]

Sometimes you need more baseball people making up the budget to put tge money where it needs to go. I think too much of business accounting rather than baseball operations has been the model for investing in the minor league/scouting.

Arte should've hired a baseball operations executive and a new GM after the Vernon Wells debacle. Things changed after the fans called out Arte for being cheap. Now we live with it.

[Blarg]

You should have stayed an Expos fan.

:-)

[Ohtaniland]

You should have stayed an Expos fan.

:-)

The Expos probably still have a better farm system than we do. 😀

[Docwaukee]

Both guys are posturing because they both know what their respective sides are going to push for come bargaining time.  Players want the capacity to make more money so they will want the CBT increased.  By and large, the owners like parity.  Very few of them would be willing to take their payroll above 189 as it is.  keeping it the same or lowering it would further homogenize financial flexibility.  Neither guy is wrong frankly.  

 

But common sense tells us that with the amount of money being pouring into the game, the number will go up at a consistent rate.  

 

Is it bullshit posturing on Arte's part?  You bet.  

 

The Angels model is quite simple actually.  Spend the money on what the fans can see and what has the best chance to attract them to the park.  To some degree that's winning but the mentality changes when you have a golden goose in CF.  What level of incremental attendance do you get for paying Cespedes 25mil per season above and beyond what you already get coming to see mike trout?  How much money do you get for making a deep playoff run?  At the end of the day you might break even and that's with the playoff run.  So if spending isn't going to put any more butts in the seats then why not put Nava, his 1.375mil salary, and his potential .360 obp in left field and batting in front of Trout?  

 

Arte isn't afraid to spend.  He just doesn't need to in order to make money.  Why take the risk for almost no financial gain?

 

From his standpoint, every single dollar he spends is view as an investment.  What is it going to get him back.  He is going to tow the line of spending just enough so that people keep showing up.  

 

One of the easiest things Arte could have done to sell the fans on his lack of FA spending is to say they they are going to be putting the money into player development and improving the farm system.  But there was no such statement.  Maybe it's because he didn't think people would accept that and maybe it's because they aren't going to.  Personally, I think Arte would have been out there preaching a player development narrative if he were truly going to go in that direction.  Which makes me believe that they aren't going to to the extent we'd like. I do think they are going to start putting more money into player development and in particular using technology and metrics to improve their odds.  But it's not going to be on big money foreign players that don't bring fans to the games.  

 

I think the reason we have been seeing so much dialogue from Eppler/MS and their minions about bringing metrics and tech to the franchise is to sell the fans they they don't need to spend as much to find talent.  They can do it by being smarter.  

 

So this is a big year for the club.  Nava, Gentry, Albuquerque, Choi, Guerra etal better work because if the net result is 80 wins, season ticket holders are going to balk a bit.  Does Eppler deserve more time than that?  Sure, but unfortunately he doesn't get it.   

[Doug Van Oort Sr]

Expect Arte's wallet to remain closed until Hamilton and Pujols are off the books. Only another 5-6 years now?

I have been an Angel fan for 50 years and I think this might be the first year that I live on a budget and don't open my wallet and attend games. Art wants to save money and not fill obvious holes with quality players, he seems happy to waste Trouts years on the Angels. I know it's a small amount to Art but the few thousand I spend a year on Angel baseball can be used somewhere else.

[Blarg]

My bet is Nava outperforms Hamilton this season and any season Hamilton was an Angel.

[Stradling]

I agree with you on that Eric.

[ettin]

But the fans wanted Pujols, Hamilton, Greinke, Wilson, Tanaka, Heyward, Upton and many more. You can't have it both ways. Arte went "all in" with Pujols, Wilson and Hamilton and got screwed. Not even one playoff win was enough for Arte to figure it out. Some fans here were asking Arte to give Trout a 10 year $400m deal....laughable.

 

10 years $400 million is what Trout will go for or at least come close too. It's not laughable when that is what he will get paid? You can argue back and forth about whether any player is worth that but it will be close to what the market valuates him at and what a team, any team, will eventually pay him.

[ABC]

These days, if you buy a sports team because you need yearly profits that is the wrong reason to own one. 

 

#selltheteamarturo

[Ohtaniland]

10 years $400 million is what Trout will go for or at least come close too. It's not laughable when that is what he will get paid? You can argue back and forth about whether any player is worth that but it will be close to what the market valuates him at and what a team, any team, will eventually pay him.

Yes let's put all our eggs in one basket.

[QuinlansMinion]

Yes let's put all our eggs in one basket.

Yes lets let Trout walk so we can become an even more laughable franchise.

[RallyPanda]

It sucks because we got used to spending $$$ and being spoiled for so many years and now we're doing the complete opposite and we're looking at a 4th place finish in the division and a boring year.

[Stradling]

Yes let's put all our eggs in one basket.

Haha, ok. We should totally trade Trout for 10 $4 million players. Or better yet 80 players making the minimum. By the way if $40 million is all your eggs then he has to trade the team, especially with $150 million annually in tv revenue.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Just imagine how much better this team would be by spending an extra mil a year on scouts/scouting in Asia.  There were a lot of players, IMO, that wouldn't have cost much that were available this offseason and would have helped this team. 

 

No point in spending an extra $1m on scouting in Asia if you aren't willing to spend the $5 million or so required to sign a player.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Yes let's put all our eggs in one basket.

 

Good thing all of our eggs aren't already in one basket...

[Inside Pitch]

It sucks because we got used to spending $$$ and being spoiled for so many years and now we're doing the complete opposite and we're looking at a 4th place finish in the division and a boring year.

 

They aren't doing the complete opposite -- they are still a high payroll team..  The difference is this year they didn't try to spend their way our of their mistakes...  again...    Worry about Moreno and money issues if and when some of these contracts fall away and the team still isn't spending money.  Until then we need to worry that his GM has the nads to tell him to go pound sand and let him run the team -- IMO, that's the bigger concern.

[disarcina]

Arte has spent tons on F/A - quite a few of those deals were just terrible and folks on this board said so at the time. Vernon Wells, Josh Hamilton....etc. I don't put the Pujols deal in the same category -- most Halos fans thought it was for too long and too expensive of a contract, but liked getting Pujols on the roster. And, while he had a very slow start as a Halo making the first impression long lasting "aw, he's another big dollar F/A bust" -- actually, Pujols has put up some pretty good numbers as a Halo.......yes, his contract amount NOW on the down side of his long contract now limits what Halos can spend in other areas -- pitching, LF etc.

But, hey, this is Arte's team, He's the owner not some corporate entity (although I'm sure Arte and the Halos are incorporated). It's easy to spend someone else's money (ask the Federal, State and local governments), this is Arte's money. If he feels he can get a better return on his investment by not signing players to long term expensive contracts - so be it. We have the most important piece signed to long term deal - Trout. Give Arte and the front office some credit for that.

And I'm with Arte when he expresses concern about changes in the MLBPA impacting the payroll penalty rules.

It seems that baseball economics have re-shaped the game significantly in recent years - much to the detriment of the MLBPA overall despite huge contracts for some superstars and rather generous increases in the MLB minimum salary.

What I see is that unless you are a superstar who can carry a team and become its identity -- MLB careers have become shorter and the real loss is to the MLB player who provides depth and has been in the league for 2-3 seasons (including in the pen)......these vet guys used to play an important role off the bench -- NOW, with today's salary structure, MLB teams cannot afford that fourth or fifth year plus vet on a roster in a bench/ platoon role.

[Docwaukee]

Yes let's put all our eggs in one basket.

that's the biggest, safest basket with air bags on all sides.  

 

I would much rather have Trout and any SP than say Upton and Zimmerman.  

 

Harper will set the market in 2019 so it will be interesting to see what that ends up.  

[RallyPanda]

We should have targeted at least 1 SP and a LF. (Upton, Cespedes, etc)

[Ohtaniland]

Yes lets let Trout walk so we can become an even more laughable franchise.

Trout is going to put himself into a position that he wants to be in. If he leaves it's because there's something out there that he thinks is better for him personally you can't get butthurt over that. Pujols left St Louis when no one thought he could.

[RallyPanda]

If anyone thinks Trout will only play for us his entire career you're dreaming!

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Union reps of all stripes get very antsy when owners don't spend more money for the sake of spending more money.

 

They scream collusion when owners try to be fiscally responsible. It's a conspiracy when a utility infielder who hits .220 isn't inundated with offers of multi-year nine-figure contracts.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Arte has spent tons on F/A - quite a few of those deals were just terrible and folks on this board said so at the time. Vernon Wells, Josh Hamilton....etc. I don't put the Pujols deal in the same category -- most Halos fans thought it was for too long and too expensive of a contract, but liked getting Pujols on the roster. And, while he had a very slow start as a Halo making the first impression long lasting "aw, he's another big dollar F/A bust" -- actually, Pujols has put up some pretty good numbers as a Halo.......yes, his contract amount NOW on the down side of his long contract now limits what Halos can spend in other areas -- pitching, LF etc.

But, hey, this is Arte's team, He's the owner not some corporate entity (although I'm sure Arte and the Halos are incorporated). It's easy to spend someone else's money (ask the Federal, State and local governments), this is Arte's money. If he feels he can get a better return on his investment by not signing players to long term expensive contracts - so be it. We have the most important piece signed to long term deal - Trout. Give Arte and the front office some credit for that.

And I'm with Arte when he expresses concern about changes in the MLBPA impacting the payroll penalty rules.

It seems that baseball economics have re-shaped the game significantly in recent years - much to the detriment of the MLBPA overall despite huge contracts for some superstars and rather generous increases in the MLB minimum salary.

What I see is that unless you are a superstar who can carry a team and become its identity -- MLB careers have become shorter and the real loss is to the MLB player who provides depth and has been in the league for 2-3 seasons (including in the pen)......these vet guys used to play an important role off the bench -- NOW, with today's salary structure, MLB teams cannot afford that fourth or fifth year plus vet on a roster in a bench/ platoon role.

 

MLB is very much set up on a stars and scrubs model economically. Probably not as much as the NBA or NFL, but still its significant. 

 

There is "no value" to a replacement level player and there are hundreds of guys who can deliver that level of production - thousands if you get into below replacement level players in the minor leagues. Marginal players provide marginal value. There are only about 30 starting jobs in the league per position which makes it hard to prove your worth and separate from the pack and if you do you get smacked with a draft pick attachment when you finally hit FA.

 

In the post steroid era players are declining sooner. With 6 years of team control, and 3 guaranteed at minimum salary players are opting to sign long term extensions that provide long term security. Fewer players are seeing the benefit of free agency.

 

This will be as close to a Bernie Sanders rant as I'll go on, but with the amount of money in the game and the incredibly generous treatment MLB has gotten from taxpayers and congress it makes sense for MLB to act more as a public good and enrich the lives of those involved rather than just the elite players and ownership. A multi-billion dollar industry with an anti-trust exemption and tax payer subsidies has no business paying it's minor league players less than minimum wage.

Edited March 13, 2016 by AngelsLakersFan

[Ohtaniland]

They scream collusion when owners try to be fiscally responsible. It's a conspiracy when a utility infielder who hits .220 isn't inundated with offers of multi-year nine-figure contracts.

These contracts became artificialy inflated during the PED years. Now every .220 hitter thinks that they should be making $MILLION$.

[Stradling]

Trout is going to put himself into a position that he wants to be in. If he leaves it's because there's something out there that he thinks is better for him personally you can't get butthurt over that. Pujols left St Louis when no one thought he could.

Yes. Which is why you do everything in your power to never let him reach free agency. He's worth every bit of $400m. He won't be the reason the team doesn't make the playoffs.