An incredible video from the Arab world that Nasser dominated

[UndertheHalo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMhK0dAfjmQ

 

 

 

A region where just everything has gone wrong.  Its a depressing thing.  So, so much has changed.

[wopphil]

So they used to only kind of hate women, and now they fully despise them?

[UndertheHalo]

So, the key point here IMO is that many of these ideas, currently prevalent among radical islamists were openly mocked.  

[mtangelsfan]

Man have things down the proverbial toilet in the last 50 years.

[Angelsjunky]

Thanks to 'Merica and, in particular, the CIA.

[mtangelsfan]

Thanks to 'Merica and, in particular, the CIA.

 

While partly true, that is an overly simplistic view of it.

 

Europe, the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Iran and Turkey have all played significant roles in the downward fall of the Middle East.

[Crampknees]

They should at least let them wear hoodies at night, that is if they are allowed out at night. 

[UndertheHalo]

Basically, when the Arab nationalists wouldn't entirely get on board completely against the Soviet Union (Nasser and others founded the non aligned movement) we and the rest of anti soviet world went all in on the Saudi Monarchy, which was beholden to the wahabi maniacs that spread their twisted poison all over the region.  The combination of that and the propping up of horrific oligarchs like Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, and the Assads.  

 

Basically because of oil and cold war politics Arab nationalism was destroyed.  This is the result. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by UndertheHalo

[Angelsjunky]

While partly true, that is an overly simplistic view of it.

 

Europe, the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Iran and Turkey have all played significant roles in the downward fall of the Middle East.

 

Yes, agreed. I wasn't saying it was only the US and CIA, just that they were directly involved.

[wopphil]

Thanks to 'Merica and, in particular, the CIA.

Of course, it's always America's fault. We are such an evil nation.

[Angelsjunky]

Of course, it's always America's fault. We are such an evil nation.

 

In this case it is partially America's fault. Investigate the history, wopphil - the CIA was training and promoting Islamic extremism as a tactic against Soviet Communism. Among other things.

[wopphil]

You miss my point AJ. People on the far left, like you, love to place blame on the U.S. for everything imaginable. You always look to blame your country first - that's your default response. It's never the fault of the actual fu*k-ups - it's always the U.S.'s fault for supposedly creating the fu*k-ups.

What is the more likely cause of extremism: the U.S.'s limited involvement in Middle East politics over a few decades, or centuries of indoctrination in a very conservative religion, combined with a male dominated society that has little respect for women, combined with poverty caused by a stubborn refusal to modernize and make friends with the West?

[UndertheHalo]

I agree that its unfair to assign blame for the regions woes entirely to the US.  Look, the US pursues its own interests as all countries do.  That is legitimate and appropriate.  However, it is fair to look back on those policies today and note the ways that they were problematic.  I don't think many reasonable people look back to Vietnam and think propping up the south was good policy.  In a similar way, our policies in the Middle East have had ill fated results.  The reason that its worth discussing them, objectively, is because today we should probably try and learn from those lessons. There is plenty of blame to be heaped onto the shoulders of all the arab factions, the iranians, and all the other players in the region.  In my opinion the UK and its policies in the middle east are at the root of many of the issues.  

 

i just think its simple and un nuanced to imagine "they bad, we good" .  Or "they hate us cuz freedom!" the path forward needs to be smart aid and arbitration and not aggressive interference.  That stuff has failed miserably, and it has most certainly played a critical role in empowering the radicals.

Edited March 12, 2016 by UndertheHalo

[Angelsjunky]

You miss my point AJ. People on the far left, like you, love to place blame on the U.S. for everything imaginable. You always look to blame your country first - that's your default response. It's never the fault of the actual fu*k-ups - it's always the U.S.'s fault for supposedly creating the fu*k-ups.

What is the more likely cause of extremism: the U.S.'s limited involvement in Middle East politics over a few decades, or centuries of indoctrination in a very conservative religion, combined with a male dominated society that has little respect for women, combined with poverty caused by a stubborn refusal to modernize and make friends with the West?

 

As is often the case on this board, you're not really hearing what I'm saying and using me as your stereotypical "far leftist." I'm not just blaming the US - there are other factors - but the US has had a much larger role than you imply. I would also counter that you are selling the typical right-wing nationalism: "America good, others bad" - that's the sort of BS that Dubya spewed forth.

 

As I said before, it is worth researching the history - the deeper you dig, the more you find about how the US has influenced the growth of Islamic extremism. It isn't a monster that we created, but it is one that we've fed.