Signing Upton/Cespedes

[Ohtaniland]

Now Gammons says that the Astros could be interested in Cespedes. Lol if he signs with a team in the AL West that's not the Angels.

[Stradling]

Now Gammons says that the Astros could be interested in Cespedes. Lol if he signs with a team in the AL West that's not the Angels.

Yes that sucks. Angels should offer him a contract tonight.

[DailyHalo]

For being in their market, he's incredibly creative and does something different every year. What exactly is Billy Beane's MO by the way? Josh Reddick has given everyone a pretty good idea of what kind of player he is and is also turning 29 next season. Reddick will also be another season removed from his one "Aberration" season back in 2012. Not every trade has too involve or be centered around prospects but they can always sweeten any deal. Every team is simultaneously finding their balance between contending and rebuilding. I mean, do you think 2015 was in the Houston Astros plan? I think you're also undervaluing Hector Santiago. He isn't expected to be Kershaw but he can be a nice lefty bridge, till their future arrives. 

Edited January 18, 2016 by DailyHalo

[wopphil]

Now Gammons says that the Astros could be interested in Cespedes. Lol if he signs with a team in the AL West that's not the Angels.

And yet delusional Arte thinks our lineup can compete with theirs.

[Ohtaniland]

And yet delusional Arte thinks our lineup can compete with theirs.

Houston could've signed Price, Upton and Cespedes and they still wouldn't match our payroll. That's how Arte is looking at it. He's already spent a ton of money and got nothing in return.

[Oz27]

What about a deal with Oakland that starts with Reddick for Santiago?

That's as likely to get a good response as "a slice of leftover pizza and a $10 Olive Garden voucher for Bryce Harper".

[Docwaukee]

And yet delusional Arte thinks our lineup can compete with theirs.

I don't think he's delusional about it at all.  I think he likes the generational money he is earning on a yearly basis and isn't willing to risk giving that up.  I am sure the team projects to have another 3 million fans walk through the turnstiles again this year.  His personal downside is worse than the potential upside.  I want to believe that the need to win is more visceral than that for him, and I will continue to believe that until the good players head in some other direction.  But it's looking more and more like he's gonna stick to his budget.  His choice of course, and I respect that, I just hoped it wouldn't be that way.  

[wopphil]

Houston could've signed Price, Upton and Cespedes and they still wouldn't match our payroll. That's how Arte is looking at it. He's already spent a ton of money and got nothing in return.

That's all fine, but it is his fault the money has been spent so poorly. To the extent he feels burned, he is the one at fault for reaching out and touching the fire.

Also, if the team isn't competitive, it's bottom line may suffer. People are more inclined to pay money to watch a competitive team.

What bothers me so much is that left field is such an obvious need, and such an easy one to fix. And yet Arte seemingly has no interest in doing so.

[xboom28x]

Looking at various threads, a lot of people seem to think that this is a horrible off season if we don't sign a big OF. Personally, I'd be very dissapointed like the most of you. I was just wondering where everyone here draws the line. If Cespedes indeed wanted more than Davis then he is completely delusional. I would rather pass than give a 6+ year to Cespedes (Upton I could swallow). The money concerns me less than the years but I wouldn't like to offer ridiculous AAV and hinder our options for the future in an attempt to stay under the luxury threshold. How does everyone here feel about spending on them? Personally, I think there is always a limit and if the final contracts end up being through the roof and we miss out on them I will be glad Arte learned his lessons from the past.

 

TMI dude

[Stradling]

Houston could've signed Price, Upton and Cespedes and they still wouldn't match our payroll. That's how Arte is looking at it. He's already spent a ton of money and got nothing in return.

Once again you are completely ignoring how the Astros got to the point of having such a low payroll. They got to such a low payroll because they were the worst team in baseball for years, well them and your other darlings the Royals. The Angels don't have the farm system that either of those teams have. So because they don't they need to supplement the major league team with free agency. It is about as simple as that. Sure they could trade one of their pitchers, but that more than likely won't really do what is needed. The other thing you ignore is the Trout window. Neither the Royals or Astros had a generational talent like Trout, so tear downs and rebuild are much easier to justify.

[Cdaniel]

Houston could've signed Price, Upton and Cespedes and they still wouldn't match our payroll. That's how Arte is looking at it. He's already spent a ton of money and got nothing in return.

If that's the case and he isn't going to spend any money than let's go full rebuild.

[Cdaniel]

Once again you are completely ignoring how the Astros got to the point of having such a low payroll. They got to such a low payroll because they were the worst team in baseball for years, well them and your other darlings the Royals. The Angels don't have the farm system that either of those teams have. So because they don't they need to supplement the major league team with free agency. It is about as simple as that. Sure they could trade one of their pitchers, but that more than likely won't really do what is needed. The other thing you ignore is the Trout window. Neither the Royals or Astros had a generational talent like Trout, so tear downs and rebuild are much easier to justify.

How many fans would he draw annually for the next 5 yes of the rebuild? I would bet he makes more money investing in LF this year.

[Stradling]

How many fans would he draw annually for the next 5 yes of the rebuild? I would bet he makes more money investing in LF this year.

Well we know it isn't a this or that type of situation. However if they did a rebuild with or without Trout, then they would be lucky to draw 2 million fans. As it is they probably screwed with the numbers to get to 3 million last year. I am not going to look it up but I am sure the number of sell outs have dropped year to year the last 5 years or so.

[vlad27]

this has been a very unexciting offseason - not that it matters cause the previous years exciting offseasons got us nowhere . but with that said you've got to try for Upton / Cespedes  we cant go into 2016 with a huge hole in LF

[Cdaniel]

Well we know it isn't a this or that type of situation. However if they did a rebuild with or without Trout, then they would be lucky to draw 2 million fans. As it is they probably screwed with the numbers to get to 3 million last year. I am not going to look it up but I am sure the number of sell outs have dropped year to year the last 5 years or so.

I bet you're right.

I don't want this team to be stuck in mediocrity....either invest in FA and build the farm through the draft in the next 5yrs or let's go full rebuild and start from scratch. I hope we would do it the Dodger way because of Trout.

[Jay]

Maybe we don't want Upton/Cespedes, we want somebody else.

[Angel Oracle]

Who is left after them?

 

Forget Dexter "give up draft pick" Fowler.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[Jay]

Who is left after them?

 

I don't know, but I'm thinking if we really wanted Upton/Cespedes we would have Upton/Cespedes.

 

No sense in spending a hundred million dollars on "best available" if that's not the guy you want.

[Ohtaniland]

How many fans would he draw annually for the next 5 yes of the rebuild? I would bet he makes more money investing in LF this year.

Mike Trout

The fans will continue to come see Mike Trout. We will get 3 million fans again this season as long as Mike Trout stays healthy and plays everyday. If Pujols gets hurt and misses the whole season we will still get 3 million fans because of Mike Trout. Arte has a gold mine in #27.

[Docwaukee]

Mike Trout

The fans will continue to come see Mike Trout. We will get 3 million fans again this season as long as Mike Trout stays healthy and plays everyday. If Pujols gets hurt and misses the whole season we will still get 3 million fans because of Mike Trout. Arte has a gold mine in #27.

So Trout is the reason Arte is printing money and yet he throws a platoon out in LF while Trout puts up near double digit WAR seasons and watches the playoffs from his house.  

 

I wonder if Trout would have given up 3 years of free agency if he knew he was going to merely be the golden goose for his billionaire owner as opposed to the centerpiece of a playoff caliber team.  

[Angel Oracle]

Day 38 of the Upton/Cespedes saga, only 4 weeks to ST

[Ohtaniland]

So Trout is the reason Arte is printing money and yet he throws a platoon out in LF while Trout puts up near double digit WAR seasons and watches the playoffs from his house.

I wonder if Trout would have given up 3 years of free agency if he knew he was going to merely be the golden goose for his billionaire owner as opposed to the centerpiece of a playoff caliber team.

Doc, the fans will come. We love baseball and we have the most marketable player in the game. We will win more games than we lose. Opening Day will be sold out with many excited fans wearing their new Simmons jerseys. I think that they will be more competitive than people here are saying. Mike Trout is a happy person by nature and he understands the business side of baseball. If things on the field don't look good in 2020 he wil probably leave for a better situation. Eppler doesn't even have a real budget to work with yet. The Angels are paying 4 of their players a total of $100M so he has to be creative for a while.

[Angel Oracle]

The proof in the pudding will be in two seasons (November 2017).

If after freeing up some $56 million AAV from payroll by then, Arte Moreno still doesn't sign even one in his prime (not declining and at least 32 years old) FA, then it is pretty much seemingly a given that he wants to sell the team.

[Ohtaniland]

 

[Docwaukee]

Doc, the fans will come. We love baseball and we have the most marketable player in the game. We will win more games than we lose. Opening Day will be sold out with many excited fans wearing their new Simmons jerseys. I think that they will be more competitive than people here are saying. Mike Trout is a happy person by nature and he understands the business side of baseball. If things on the field don't look good in 2020 he wil probably leave for a better situation. Eppler doesn't even have a real budget to work with yet. The Angels are paying 4 of their players a total of $100M so he has to be creative for a while.

There is a difference between being happy because you are good natured and being unsatisfied with fringe mediocrity because you are competitive.  They are not mutually exclusive.  

 

Eppler's budget was to use farm currency and he used it.  His creativity was to take future value and exchange it for current value.  

 

Eppler has conceded beyond 2020 in exchange for the next five years.  Now we might concede the first two of those 5 years.  

 

Two years from now, our farm system might be better yet likely still the worst in baseball.  There is no help coming from the farm for 2018. We will, in all likelihood, need a 2bman, LFer, 3bman and probably a couple of other major positions to fill like starting and relief pitching.  

 

Without any major league help from the farm system, how do you think we are going to fill those positions?   I will give you the answer.  We are going to trade anything of value that is starting to develop on the farm and spend money on high priced free agents to fill the gaps.  

 

Albert will be 38 that year btw and unless he undergoes the first successful leg transplant by a professional athlete, 2018 will likely have more holes to fill than 2016.  

 

Of the five year window being created, what probably amounts to your best chance at anything is over the next two years.  

 

But hey.  3 million fans.  Mike Trout.  Andrelton Simmons.