The SF Giants Philosophy of Success

[Troll Daddy]

Having an owner, GM & manager that are willing to put the best performing players, not the highest paid, on the field when it matters has got to be a huge asset as well to their 3 championships. Hamilton would not have been on the playoff roster in 2014, let alone starting all 3 games, if Sabean and Bochy were running things.

not that it matters ... but there is a 100% chance Hamilton would of not only been on the roster but would of started in LF.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Troll Daddy

[Adam]

*would have x2

[Troll Daddy]

*would have x2

I'm Asian too ... it's not my fault.

[OregonLAA]

Bumgarner being the whole team in 2014. Cody Ross having the best month of baseball in his life in 2010 was nice. Random players like Ishikawa and Scutaro coming up big in the playoffs is nice.

[tdawg87]

As far as money goes, their payrolls during the World Series years were 10th, 8th, and 7th - so they were willing to spend, but weren't among the top spenders (and less than the Angels, Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, and Tigers in all three years).

 

Another thing I want to point out in regards to payroll: If we use the year-end figures, in 2014, The Giants had the second highest payroll in baseball. In 2012, they had the 6th highest.

 

Your point isn't incorrect, but SF is definitely an organization that is willing to spend a lot of money to get to where they want to be. It remains to be seen if they will make the postseason this coming year, but they will likely have a higher payroll than the Angels by year's end. Just like 2015.

 

Just wanted to point this out before the narrative starts about The Giants being an organization that doesn't buy their way into the postseason.

Edited December 21, 2015 by tdawg87

[Chuck]

Another thing I want to point out in regards to payroll: If we use the year-end figures, in 2014, The Giants had the second highest payroll in baseball. In 2012, they had the 6th highest.

 

Your point isn't incorrect, but SF is definitely an organization that is willing to spend a lot of money to get to where they want to be. It remains to be seen if they will make the postseason this coming year, but they will likely have a higher payroll than the Angels by year's end. Just like 2015.

 

Just wanted to point this out before the narrative starts about The Giants being an organization that doesn't buy their way into the postseason.

 

Good points, Tdawg! 

[Angelsjunky]

Joyner, McLemore, Scofield and Howell come to mind. Our OF was centered around Devo and we couldn't pitch to save our lives.

 

jump to the late 90's GA, Edmonds, Erstad and Salmon with Bengie and then Glaus, and then to 2002 (Eckstein, Kennedy, Spiez - were from outside the Organization). Add in Fulmer as the DH we did fine. Most of our extras were castoff's (Eck, Spiez and Fulmer).

 

2002 was centered on the backend lockdown pen. As most of the starters could be counted on getting through the lineup 1-2 times before they would get hammered and KROD added another dimension to the pen.

 

I hate to say it, but 2002 was pretty fluky - a good example of how everything can align magically. But it wasn't a "built to last" team.

 

To your list I would add:

 

2000s: Kendrick, Aybar, Kotchman, Mathis, Napoli, McPherson, Wood

 

Now the problem is that this group flopped, by and large, in that all were pretty highly regarded--except Napoli, ironically considering he's had one of the better careers of the bunch and the only one with a ring. The Angels over-compensated by dipping deep into free agency and poor trades, and the next wave was pretty weak behind Trout. So we're left with two waves of homegrown position players that just aren't cutting it. The current one is balanced out by including Trout, but beyond him you have Cron and Calhoun...that's it, so far at least.

 

Count me in with the camp that is impressed with their run, but not overly so. They've manged to get hot in October every other year. Must be nice.  

 

This makes them even more impressive, if you think about it. They put themselves in a position to contend and once they had the opportunity, the went all the way with it.

 

This is my point: they aren't the most talented team in baseball over the last six years, but they are the most successful.

 

The Giants are a very strange coincidence. 2010 Lincecum was hot, 2012 they had a good OBP + good pitching, 2014 they rode Bumgardners arm to a title. I dont think you can look at the Giants and say its a formula to follow. They play in the NL in an extreme pitchers park, they have their own formula for winning.

I think better examples would be the Royals, Red Sox, Cardinals, and Yankees. All of those World Series teams had great OBP iirc. Other than that the only other team to win was the Giants, who just get incredibly hot in October and have dominant pitching.

 

Yes, but see my point above. The Giants aren't the most talented franchise in baseball, but they've been the most successful over the last six years. The Angels probably have just as much talent now--at least on the major league club--as the Giants did in 2010...so how did they do it?

 

Giants drafted Lincecum, Bumgarner and Posey in top of 1st round when they were terrible.

 

Belt (5th round), Panik (1st round 29th pick - vs Cron at 17 that year) and Duffy (18th round) drafted as they got better.

 

Giants develop their 1st round picks....Angels don't (Wood, Conger, Bachanov, Cowart)

 

Giants keep their 1st round picks...Angels don't (signed GMJ, Hunter, Pujols, Wilson, Hamilton)

 

Giants don't trade their 1st round picks...Angels do (Newcomb, Grichuk, Corbin, Skaggs)

 

 

Pence is not homegrown...trade from Philadelphia

 

Nicely done. These are things the Angels could learn from.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Angelsjunky

[QuinlansMinion]

Bumgarner being the whole team in 2014. Cody Ross having the best month of baseball in his life in 2010 was nice. Random players like Ishikawa and Scutaro coming up big in the playoffs is nice.

Thats exactly why we cant look at them and say we need to follow that formula.  Were not going to find a Cody Ross or a Bumgardner, and the one pitcher we had who could have potentially reached that level was dealt for a shortstop.  

 

Which brings me back to my original point, no OBP, no rings.  Exclude the Giants and look at the Red Sox, Royals, Cardinals, and Yankees.

[seenoevil]

Formula:

Fire manager that can't beat MS in the world series.

Win 3 WS in the next decade.

hahaha

[Vegas Halo Fan]

When the Yankees were really good over a prolonged period, this is pretty much the same formula that they used. They had a lot of home grown talent, and they supplemented with good but not great players through free agency - complimentary pieces like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius. 

[zenmaster]

Their formula for success is highly dependent on their excellent manager, Bochy.

[tdawg87]

When the Yankees were really good over a prolonged period, this is pretty much the same formula that they used. They had a lot of home grown talent, and they supplemented with good but not great players through free agency - complimentary pieces like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius. 

 

The Yankees had the highest payroll in baseball 3 out of the 4 years they won the WS during their epic run in the late 90's/early 00's. The one year they didn't, they were in 2nd by about $200,000.

 

Again, you are correct that they had a lot of home grown talent, but they were also paying for a lot of talent.

[Angelsjunky]

Thats exactly why we cant look at them and say we need to follow that formula.  Were not going to find a Cody Ross or a Bumgardner, and the one pitcher we had who could have potentially reached that level was dealt for a shortstop.  

 

Which brings me back to my original point, no OBP, no rings.  Exclude the Giants and look at the Red Sox, Royals, Cardinals, and Yankees.

 

I agree - we shouldn't try to copy their formula, but we can learn from it. But I think the basic aspect of it - build from within, supplement with free agency and trades - is good no matter who you are.

[QuinlansMinion]

I agree - we shouldn't try to copy their formula, but we can learn from it. But I think the basic aspect of it - build from within, supplement with free agency and trades - is good no matter who you are.

Thats easy for you to say. I think every org would like to build from within. If we plan on doing that, we better get used to rebuilding, and the suckage that comes along with it. We have 0 playoff wins and 1 playoff berth in 5 seasons, remind me again what exactly we have in our farm system to show for it?

[AngelsLakersFan]

I hate to say it, but 2002 was pretty fluky - a good example of how everything can align magically. But it wasn't a "built to last" team.

 

 

The 2002 team was the disappointing 90's core finally putting it all together. It was the most talented group of players we've ever developed - Salmon, Anderson, Edmonds, Erstad, Glaus, Percival and no starting pitching. We were able to establish a lights out bullpen in 2002 - one of the best pens ever, and a patch work starting staff, with a good defense. These are things we had failed to do for years prior because we were hesitant to spend money to put the team over the edge. Unfortunately by the time we managed to put that team together without a significant financial investment, that core had aged to the point of no return.

 

2003 was destroyed by injuries, something older teams experience. 2004 finally saw investment in the team, and we put together a heck of a roster but that was pretty much the end of Salmon and Glaus as productive Halos. If Disney had put money into the team like Moreno did when he first purchased the team we likely would've won a world series sooner. Randy Johnson and Mark McGwire all wanted to play here but we weren't interested. Those guys, plus a couple of small free agent signings, and things might've been different.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The Angels' main problem in recent years has been spending a lot of money on players who have underproduced. Not only was there a lack of production on the field, the cash drain kept them from addressing other needs. They have spent money, but not wisely.

[AngelsLakersFan]

The Yankees had the highest payroll in baseball 3 out of the 4 years they won the WS during their epic run in the late 90's/early 00's. The one year they didn't, they were in 2nd by about $200,000.

 

Again, you are correct that they had a lot of home grown talent, but they were also paying for a lot of talent.

 

Let's hope the Astros television situation keeps sucking, because in that market with that talent they very well could establish an Yankees like dynasty if their ownership wants it.

[tdawg87]

The Angels' main problem in recent years has been spending a lot of money on players who have underproduced. Not only was there a lack of production on the field, the cash drain kept them from addressing other needs. They have spent money, but not wisely.

 

Which is why you need a combination of scouting/drafting and a ton of money to be consistently successful. Unless you're the Cards.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Sometimes it's just to hard for the homers to admit that there are better run franchises than our own. The Giants are just making quality decisions and they've built a dynasty. Bochy has done a terrific job. They have a very nice stadium for their fans. We have 2002 vs the Giants to hang our hats on.

Edit....nice work AJ

exactly. Theyve been more successful....but they cant beat us. (Grabs crotch and spits)

But i dont think anyone here disagrees. The giants are better run. I think the point AJ is making is how the hell have they done it? And thats not necessarily a question of us vs them, but them vs everyone

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Which is why you need a combination of scouting/drafting and a ton of money to be consistently successful. Unless you're the Cards.

 

If I were a GM, I would never trade with the Cardinals. They always know something that you don't about the players going in both directions. Going back more than 50 years, they got Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[ten ocho recon scout]

If I were a GM, I would never trade with the Cardinals. They always know something that you don't about the players going in both directions. Going back more than 50 years, they got Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.

[ettin]

If I were a GM, I would never trade with the Cardinals. They always know something that you don't about the players going in both directions. Going back more than 50 years, they got Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.

 

I'd only consider trading with them if I thought my computer hackers were better than theirs.

[tomsred]

If I were a GM, I would never trade with the Cardinals. They always know something that you don't about the players going in both directions. Going back more than 50 years, they got Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.

 

They're cheap bastards, they got Stan Musial and kept him for 21 years, only paid him $980,000 in his career, and he's in the Hall of Fame, LOL.

[Stradling]

They're cheap bastards, they got Stan Musial and kept him for 21 years, only paid him $980,000 in his career, and he's in the Hall of Fame, LOL.

Claude just went from 6 to 12.

[mrwicked]

I'll be at Giants opening day, as always.

Keeping the streak alive! Been to every opening day at the new ballpark since I was a freshman in college.

If anyone goes you can find me at the bar.