Orange County Register: A look at the Angels' 2017 payroll and the luxury tax

[ksangel]

I've never figured out why Arte is so concerned about paying a few million penalty when he's paying Hamilton $28M+ per year not to play for the Angels.

[Ohtaniland]

I've never figured out why Arte is so concerned about paying a few million penalty when he's paying Hamilton $28M+ per year not to play for the Angels.

Well Hamilton officially closed Arte's high end free agent account. Arte no longer believes that the more you pay the better they play.

[Ohtaniland]

Arte is going to get his 3 million fans next season, im not sure what hes really worried about. If he wants to increase the Angels value, its in his own best interest to field a competitive team that can win a World Series.

If hes not happy that the money hes already spending is not getting the results he wants, maybe he should start looking into the managing situation and holding guys accountable, and im not talking about the pitching/hitting coaches. Hes already on board with Eppler trading away top prospects that would be on cheap deals for years to come. It seems like at this point Arte is content with fielding an average team with Mike Trout on it, in hopes of riding his greatness to a miraculous division title. This way he gets his 3 million fans, and doesnt have to worry about his wallet.

The real kicker is that Pujols still believes that they are building the team around him. He's the guy guaranteed to bat 3rd or 4th. He's the guy with the big home run tote board. He's the guy who hands Scioscia the lineup card every game to let Sosh know if he's playing 1st or DHing.

[Angelsjunky]

I would have no problem if he decided to do things different but why start that philosophy in the middle of the off season rather than the beginning.

 

I agree, but what do we really know? Arte says he's not going to sign a big free agent, but would anyone be surprised if he signs Upton or Cespedes or Gordon? And maybe he went into the offseason with the plan not to sign a big free agent - do we know what the philosophy was at the beginning of the offseason? We the fans were talking about Heyward, Upton, etc, but the front office never said "We're going to sign a bit bat," as far as I know.

 

As I see it, the Angels only have one glaring hole right now - and it is LF. They could use an upgrade at 2B, but LF is the one area that could most be improved. Maybe Eppler still has plans on upgrading LF through trade. Santiago could probably net a solid outfielder - not a star, but someone who would be better than Gentry/Nava. Shoemaker could probably get a grade B prospect.

 

It is still December, after all.

[Angelsjunky]

The real kicker is that Pujols still believes that they are building the team around him. He's the guy guaranteed to bat 3rd or 4th. He's the guy with the big home run tote board. He's the guy who hands Scioscia the lineup card every game to let Sosh know if he's playing 1st or DHing.

 

Imagine a scenario where Pujols keeps losing ground in batting average but maintains his power. Next year maybe he hits .240 with 35 HR. The year after, .230 with 33 HR. In a few years we might see .190 with 25 HR.

[Stradling]

I agree, but what do we really know? Arte says he's not going to sign a big free agent, but would anyone be surprised if he signs Upton or Cespedes or Gordon? And maybe he went into the offseason with the plan not to sign a big free agent - do we know what the philosophy was at the beginning of the offseason? We the fans were talking about Heyward, Upton, etc, but the front office never said "We're going to sign a bit bat," as far as I know.

As I see it, the Angels only have one glaring hole right now - and it is LF. They could use an upgrade at 2B, but LF is the one area that could most be improved. Maybe Eppler still has plans on upgrading LF through trade. Santiago could probably net a solid outfielder - not a star, but someone who would be better than Gentry/Nava. Shoemaker could probably get a grade B prospect.

It is still December, after all.

I would not be surprised at all if the prices came down and the years came down if Arte jumped back in.

[DMVol]

.....I think what we're seeing in Eppler is a guy who is more conservative than Dipoto but less so than Stoneman, which might be why Arte hired him.

"More conservative" when you trade your everyday solid SS AND your two best pitching prospects for a defensive upgrade at SS?  I wouldn't call that conservative....I would call it (among other things) a very risky move, much moreso than any trade DiPoto made...

[halomatt]

I would not be surprised at all if the prices came down and the years came down if Arte jumped back in.

I think this is what he (and everybody in baseball) is waiting to happen. 

[Stradling]

The real kicker is that Pujols still believes that they are building the team around him. He's the guy guaranteed to bat 3rd or 4th. He's the guy with the big home run tote board. He's the guy who hands Scioscia the lineup card every game to let Sosh know if he's playing 1st or DHing.

Why do you believe this? Just a hunch Albert isn't the guy who went to the Angels and asked for a home run countdown. I'm guessing it was a marketing/ownership decision. Not much different than signing him to that contract you hate. Your hatred/jealousy is silly.

[Angelsjunky]

"More conservative" when you trade your everyday solid SS AND your two best pitching prospects for a defensive upgrade at SS?  I wouldn't call that conservative....I would call it (among other things) a very risky move, much moreso than any trade DiPoto made...

 

Good point but I wouldn't necessarily call it very risky, though. Simmons is a proven commodity, while Newcomb could either be Jon Lester or Johnny Hellweg. Ellis could be a #3 or a #5. He traded away two prospects, one very good and one good, for five years of the top defensive player in baseball.

[DMVol]

"More conservative" when you trade your everyday solid SS AND your two best pitching prospects for a defensive upgrade at SS?  I wouldn't call that conservative....I would call it (among other things) a very risky move, much moreso than any trade DiPoto made...

 

Good point but I wouldn't necessarily call it very risky, though. Simmons is a proven commodity, while Newcomb could either be Jon Lester or Johnny Hellweg. Ellis could be a #3 or a #5. He traded away two prospects, one very good and one good, for five years of the top defensive player in baseball.

True that....Simmons isn't a risky move....but, compared to Trumbo and Kendrick trades, giving up two good (one potentially very good) prospects is riskier in the long run....

[Second Base]

Imagine a scenario where Pujols keeps losing ground in batting average but maintains his power. Next year maybe he hits .240 with 35 HR. The year after, .230 with 33 HR. In a few years we might see .190 with 25 HR.

That's basically exactly what I see happening. In a year or two he'll have devolved into more of a power bat off the bench, but because of his contract, he'll still be our starting DH. I see him opting out at age 40, leaving money on the table for his final two seasons.

[DMVol]

.....I see him opting out at age 40, leaving money on the table for his final two seasons.

And I have some swamp land in Arizona that I'll sell you if you really believe that....

[Ohtaniland]

That's basically exactly what I see happening. In a year or two he'll have devolved into more of a power bat off the bench, but because of his contract, he'll still be our starting DH. I see him opting out at age 40, leaving money on the table for his final two seasons.

Albert would rather rot his ass on the pine than leave $59M behind. He will justify it by saying he needs the money for his charity. Don't forget that he also has a 10 year service contract with the Angels after he's done with the great train robbery.

Edited December 21, 2015 by CALZONE

[Stradling]

Albert would rather rot his ass on the pine than leave $59M behind. He will justify it by saying he needs the money for his charity. Don't forget that he also has a 10 year service contract with the Angels after he's done with the great train robbery.

Pathetic

[Stradling]

Robbery equals signing a contract offered

[Angel Oracle]

If one spectacular catch GMJHGH wasn't signed, if the Wells trade hadn't been made, if Beltre was signed as he should have been, and Hackilton wasn't signed, all decisions easily handled with REAL baseball people in the FO, then the Pujols signing isn't as big of a deal.     It's an overpayment of somewhat extreme portions, but Arte would still likely be some $25-$30 million UNDER the luxury tax threshold. 

[Ohtaniland]

Robbery equals signing a contract offered

I'm pretty sure that the contract doesn't exclude Albert from hustling to first base on every ground ball he hits. But anyway enough about Albert. We are stuck with him another six years. 6 YEARS!

[Mark68]

Problem being that the Angels will have additional holes needed to be filled in 2017....

 

It's only a matter of time until Pujols goes from merely average to hurting the team. What then?

The rotation in 2017 lacks an ace or really any proven starter outside of Richards. The depth is nice, but they are unproven talent at this point. 

 

The holes will continue to pile on with no one in the minors to fill them.  Arte probably knows this and that's why he's been reluctant to blow his wad this year.

 

If they hadn't traded for Simmons, I would understand the reasoning.

Newcomb would've been a very valuable and inexpensive piece next year. 

The very same holes that the team has this year. So, yeah, we're in this 'tweener situation where if Arte doesn't want to spend money, we'll have between 80-90 wins and be on the fringes of playoff races, maybe sneaking in once or twice, probably until Trout's gone. It seems like this year is a better time to try to upgrade than next year based on free agent classes.

 

That means that if Arte isn't going to hand out a free agent contract to lock somebody up this year, it won't happen next year (at least, it shouldn't if it isn't happening this year).

 

I think a lot of the frustration being expressed on here is that the in between approach will not work (look at the Phillies starting with 2012 as their core players got older). We can either try to complete and win every year, at least while we still have Trout, or we can blow the whole works up and start over--which probably includes trading Trout.

 

With no farm system to speak of, we really are in a binary situation.

 

1=Getting the necessary pieces each year to win now, which entails free agency (because we have few, if any assets that would be worth more to trade than to remain on the Angels).

0=Trading everybody we can trade to get as many pieces back to become competitive in 2-3 years.

 

Arte's trying the middle path, and it's netted zero playoff wins in six years.

[DMVol]

If one spectacular catch GMJHGH wasn't signed, if the Wells trade hadn't been made, if Beltre was signed as he should have been, and Hackilton wasn't signed, all decisions easily handled with REAL baseball people in the FO, then the Pujols signing isn't as big of a deal.     It's an overpayment of somewhat extreme portions, but Arte would still likely be some $25-$30 million UNDER the luxury tax threshold. 

If the baseball people in the FO had been listened to, Pujols was never signed either....as I recall, other than the Cards (who wanted to keep their best player since Stan the Man if possible), the only serious bidders for Pujols were the Marlins and Angels....with both the Marlins and Angels, the bidding came from owners doing dumb things not endorsed by their baseball people....

Edited December 21, 2015 by DMVol

[Troll Daddy]

Arte is going to get his 3 million fans next season, im not sure what hes really worried about. If he wants to increase the Angels value, its in his own best interest to field a competitive team that can win a World Series.

If hes not happy that the money hes already spending is not getting the results he wants, maybe he should start looking into the managing situation and holding guys accountable, and im not talking about the pitching/hitting coaches. Hes already on board with Eppler trading away top prospects that would be on cheap deals for years to come. It seems like at this point Arte is content with fielding an average team with Mike Trout on it, in hopes of riding his greatness to a miraculous division title. This way he gets his 3 million fans, and doesnt have to worry about his wallet.

You don't think that Trout isn't happy about the Andrelton trade?

[QuinlansMinion]

You don't think that Trout isn't happy about the Andrelton trade?

I dont think he really cares to be honest.  He was pretty good friends with Aybar if I recall, and im not sure he thinks a defensive specialist coming in is going to change all that much, especially when Aybar was pretty good himself defensively.  

Had we gotten a guy who could get on base for him, im sure he would have been happy.  As of right now, offensively we are 100 % reliant on Trout putting up Ruthian numbers.  If he puts up anything short of Ruth numbers, this team has 0 chance of making the playoffs.   Do you think hes happy about that?

[Stradling]

I think Trout wants players that help his team win games. Simmons does that.

[Second Base]

I think I was predominantly opposed to the Simmons deal based on the price we paid for a light hitting defensive specialist. But after seeing the prices paid for good quality closers, I'm less mad. I'm not opposed to Simmons as a player. He should be 3-4 win player pretty consistently moving forward.

[QuinlansMinion]

I think Trout wants players that help his team win games. Simmons does that.

Ok.  But were still 100 % dependent on Trouts Ruth numbers to carry us.  Think hes happy about that?