Second Base Options

[beatlesrule]

This board undervalues Santiago.

[Angel Oracle]

There are too many actual pressing needs to be obsessing about 2nd base. The Angels actually have a warm body with MLB experience at a minimum salary in that position while they have nothing in left field or third base. So in effect you are worrying about if you're wearing matching socks while on the emergency room table.

Just have Griffin work a ton with Giovatella this off-season.

[Dick B Back]

This board undervalues Santiago.

This board has seen him pitch.

[ELEVEN]

5 run innings out of nowhere are not of much value.

[DailyHalo]

^ You're both right about this. Santiago has shown that he has the talent too be a fringe 2 or dominate 3 but has also thoroughly disappointed, time and time again. Its a little more complicated then this but it would help if he were looking where he's throwing the ball 85% of the time or didn't fly open as much as he humanly (F***in') can. I'm no doctor, It's just Hector needs too be more focused out there and you can't teach talent but you can definitely teach focus. Everybody reacts too different voices and styles.

[Docwaukee]

This board undervalues Santiago.

All it takes is one team to covet him and have the right player.  So we could end up with more than expected.  

 

But Hector is what he is.  He's got good stuff but the nature of the way he pitches keeps him from getting deep into games.  His fielding independent numbers don't look good so the saber inclined teams will likely devalue him.  He's also an extreme fly ball pitcher which can limit the number of teams who would value him.  His biggest asset is that he misses bats and even though his advanced metrics aren't good, he has consistently outperformed them to the extent that it's probably less of an aberration and more likely a repeatable skill.  A skill likely related to him not pitching deep into games.  Ideally, he'd be a good fit in a pitchers park on a team with a deep bullpen and good OF defense.  

 

Some options:

Royals

Pirates 

Dodgers

Marlins 

Giants

Padres

Twins

Detroit

St. Louis

Seattle

 

Some of those teams don't have the best pen or OF defense, but they all have sizable parks and are likely looking to win.  

 

Potential trade candidates from that list

Prado, Panick, Solarte, Van Slyke, Hernandez, Peraza, Todd Walker, Plouffe, Cuthbert, Alen Hanson, Rymer Liriano, Kinsler, among others.  Not saying it would be one for one with any of these guys, but just a few thoughts.  

[marcosantinia12]

2 great posts Dochalo. There are honestly some pretty good options that we have to consider for 2nd or 3rd base. I think LF definitely comes from FA seeing the many options we have there.

What would you propose for a Kendrick trade? ALso do you think Giants would let go of Panik? Maybe in a deal involving Wilson?

[marcosantinia12]

Kinsler's my top choice at second. Perez, Simmons, Kinsler, and Trout up the middle, my goodness. Re-sign Freese and sign Span, Aoki, or one of the Korean bats?

The defense would be so sexy, not to mention the GG caliber gloves on both sides of the middle aswell with Calhoun and Cowart if we end up rolling with him and Kubitza.

Aoki sounds good if we decide to go the cheap route, I would personally pass on Freese though. I feel like we've seen the best of him. I think Wilson/Santiago nets us better options and if not, i can live with gold glove defense from cowart with a platoon partner of Kubitza. Not ideal, but I'd rather allocate the money for Freese on something else like a high-end OFer, a Fister type, or a lock down arm.

[greginpsca]

Santiago has loads of talent. I think most of us on this board agree about that. That said, i have had my fill of him throwing 75-80 pitches thru 3 innings too many times. You always have to plan for the bullpen to throw 5-6 innings on everyone of his starts. Because he had a good 1st half last season and made the All Star team, his stock is about as high as it will ever get. So if you can get a piece to fill a hole in a deal, trade him!! The hole that opens up with him gone will be much easier to replace.

[Docwaukee]

2 great posts Dochalo. There are honestly some pretty good options that we have to consider for 2nd or 3rd base. I think LF definitely comes from FA seeing the many options we have there.

What would you propose for a Kendrick trade? ALso do you think Giants would let go of Panik? Maybe in a deal involving Wilson?

I presume you meant Santiago.  I doubt the giants give up panik unless it's for the right arm.  At the same time, I bet the giants see what a lot do about him.  That he's a bit out over his skis offensively and they might try to sell high.  Again though, they'd probably expect Richards or Heaney for him and that I wouldn't do.  I definitely don't think they'd do it for Wilson.  Wilson's value is very tough to figure out.  The most likely deal involving him would be a salary offset.  Like for Ethier.  

 

Frankly, I'd still do that.  

 

If I had my way, I'd go after Maeda, Trade Wilson for Ethier.  Sign Zobrist.  Sign Uribe to platoon vs. lefties.  Add a pen arm.  Add a backup catcher that could play some 1b.  Claim Gentry for the 4th OF spot.

 

You could also trade Santiago for Prado and then sign Fister to a 1yr deal.  But I don't see that happening.  

 

Filling 3b, LF and 2b with avg players is going to improve the offense more than people think.  

 

My biggest concern right now is that Albert is going to have one of those 'lost' seasons where he's in and out of the lineup all year and marginally productive.   

[Brent Maguire]

Panik would cost a fortune. The guy may be the best 2B in the NL now. 4.2 WAR in only 100 games last year. If the power spike was legit, he's a 5-6 WAR guy whose cost controlled. 

[Hollyw00d]

Todd walker is still in mlb?

[marcosantinia12]

This board undervalues Santiago.

Not necessarily undervalue him but we can afford to move a starter due to our surplus of options. Not saying they are the best options, but we definitely arent going to trot out an 8 man rotation. It would be counter productive to move any of our young guys, which leaves us with 4 options in Weaver, Shoemaker, Wilson, and Santiago.

Weaver wouldnt be traded even if the angels wanted to so lets scratch him. Shoemaker could be traded but i think what he could net us is relatively low to the value he adds to us in the depth department. This leaves us with 2 possible trade pieces in WIlson and Santiago. Ideally we keep CJ because he's one of our only guys that can eat up innings which is why Santiago looks like the best trade option. I personally wouldn't be opposed to trading Wilson for the right piece/s though, especially because we are able to shed some salary.

[marcosantinia12]

Yeah, i think panik would be a long shot aswell. Its a reason why i mention that the giants may be open to talking about Kelby Tomlinson. He seems to match what we should be looking for in a player, only problem is his lack of a track record and he could very easily become a mediocre or below average player.

And sorry, i meant to ask what it would take to get kinsler not kendrick haha. Any match at all?

[Second Base]

Here's the way I'm approaching 2B if I'm the Angels.

1. We just acquired the best defensive SS in the last decade at least. Do you really want to pair him with the worst defensive 2B in baseball?

2. Because our lack of high end SP, as well as the giant question marks that are CJ and Weav, it would be in the Angels best interest to help them with the best defense possible.

3. We need offense, and while Giavotella held his own, with the exception of clutch situations, he certainly doesn't answer any of these needs.

So, the way I see it, 2B takes precedent over 3B, where we already have an amazing defensive option and one that can hit. 2B, there isn't anything there outside of Pennington who is more suited for UT, Featherston who is the same, and Yarbrough/Johnson, both of whom had terrible 2015 seasons.

[Stradling]

How I prioritize it:

LF

Pen

Starter

2nd base

Strong versatile bench

3rd base

Catcher

[ettin]

How I prioritize it:

LF

Pen

Starter

2nd base

Strong versatile bench

3rd base

Catcher

 

That's actually a pretty good order. Might flip starting and relief but otherwise yeah.

[marcosantinia12]

Enrique Hernandez is an FA, and i don't think he is demanding huge dollars

Solid player with the glove at second base, and his hitting is trending upwards

I thought he was under Dodger's control?

[marcosantinia12]

How I prioritize it:

LF

Pen

Starter

2nd base

Strong versatile bench

3rd base

Catcher

I have

LF

Pen

2B/3B

Starter

Bench

Catcher

Pretty similar, but a couple things flipped. I see 2nd and 3rd pretty equal in terms of priority. I think it boils down to how much each return improves the team. For example, I'd rather have Prado/Escobar at third with Gio at 2nd over Cowart/Kubitza at 3rd and Asdrubal Cabrera at 2nd. But I'd rather have Cowart/Kubitza at third with Kinsler at 2nd over the Prado/Escobar-Gio combo. Ideally, we can get something along the lines of Prado/Cabrera, Escobar/Hernandez, or if we want to to spend in FA maybe Prado/Kendrick or Zobrist. 

I think the value of something like Prado/Kendrick or Zobrist over Cowart(or Kubitza)/Gio is super underrated. Regardless if we got a big OFer, that lineup and defense would be substantially stronger than 2015's. 

[nikkachez]

How I prioritize it:

LF

Pen

Starter

2nd base

Strong versatile bench

3rd base

Catcher

Interesting order, I am really curious to know how the Angels are prioritizing starting pitching. You gotta think they know the team needs another front of the rotation guy, right? I would be okay if they were "thrifty" and sneaky in filling all the other holes if it meant signing an ace. 

[marcosantinia12]

Interesting order, I am really curious to know how the Angels are prioritizing starting pitching. You gotta think they know the team needs another front of the rotation guy, right? I would be okay if they were "thrifty" and sneaky in filling all the other holes if it meant signing an ace. 

Yeah, that's another possible rout. Something like

LF - Aoki/Span

RP - Sipp

2B - Cabrera

3B - Trade (Makes even more sense to trade a pitcher if we are picking one up)

Bench - Morneau/Utley + trade for a speedy defensive OFer like Gore/Dyson

SP - ACE

EDIT: I'd love one more RP though, via trade or FA

Edited November 22, 2015 by marcosantinia12

[Angelfaninidaho]

Apparently a lot of teams are checking in on Dee Gordon.  I like Gia but I would love to see the 2015 SS and GG winner in our lineup.