22-23 since Jerry quit.

[Troll Daddy]

Dipoto put a wrench into our offense this off season. I put most of the blame on him. I truly believe it's Scioscia that's keeping this team in the hunt.

I would be shocked if the team made the playoffs. I'll hope for the best.

[NrM]

Do people really believe Jerry is the one who pushed for Pujols and Hamilton?

[DMVol]

Do people really believe Jerry is the one who pushed for Pujols and Hamilton?

We'll never know the full story....but if he tried to stop Arte in either case, he didn't try hard enough....

[tomsred]

Good post tomsred. However, if this free fall continues, I do believe the team would be better of getting rid of Scioscia. Hell, even if we sneak into the second wild card, I still think the franchise may be better off letting him go, and here's why:

 

1) Dedication to veterans - Seen this many times through the years. This includes platooning talented youngsters, like Kendrys Morales who should have been starting every day (first full year). I will admit, however, that most managers of potential playoff teams likely have this issue.

2) Platoons and the lefty/righty matchup - Alluded to in the above, but includes handling of the bullpen as well.

3) Aggressive baserunning - I am tired of being top 3 in OOB

4) Inability to adapt philosophy to constructed team - See the above. This should not be an aggressive team on the bases, yet he still likes this approach and is all high-fives and butt pats when they run themselves into outs

5) Playoff Managing - The bunt, sticking Hamilton in cleanup last year, starting CJ Wilson in game 3 last season... A manager like Bochy, on the other hand, had no issue putting two-time Cy Young winner Tim Lincecum in the bullpen where he excelled in the 2012 playoffs. I will give him massive props for the '02 run putting so much faith in K-Rod and Lackey though.

6) Control over organization - This is partially speculative as to why Jedi left, but if it is true that he wasn't fully implementing scouting reports and has become complacent, this is a huge problem. Again this is based on reports we have read this season that may be true, false or somewhere in-between, but dating back to the Reagins era, it sure seems like he has a lot of control over the organization. Furthermore, this perceived control over the org could hinder our search for a GM.

 

As to your point that players love him, that's great, but that doesn't mean we should keep him. There have been tons of "player's coaches" throughout the years in all sports, and a lot of them get fired.

 

Now, things could turn around this season. After all, they are still in the second wild card and contending for the division, but this has been a completely weird season from the Hamilton incident, to Dipoto leaving, to openly admitting to catering to the rich, to almost everyone playing below their career averages. Those aren't Scioscia's fault, sans (perhaps) Dipoto resigning, but I feel like a change is in order if things continue this way the rest of the season. With that said, if we win the World Series, I will gladly take an IEBruin "I agree" post.

 

Those are certainly more focused observations.  They certainly have an easy opportunity to move on to something new as you can just focus on getting the best GM possible, then let him redo the organization, manager and coaching staff to his heart's content.  In other words, do a complete reset.  All of your points are worthy of discussion.  There are not many "revolutionary" managers in baseball, they generally manage similarly.  I'll just pick Ned Yost as an example.  He goes from being a dead beat to genious, pretty much all on the skills of the players he has.  Kansas City success to me comes almost all from their GM, not their coaching staff.  To me, a manager like Joe Maddon is pretty revolutionary in style, but think of the howling and criticisms here at some of the stuff he would try to pull off.  Arte will have to swallow hard because he likes to think he can be competitive each and every year, and a complete reset will spin the club at least into a year or two of ugliness similar to what we have now.

 

In the end, I think it will come down to the fact that radical changes need to be made to shake up the organization at all levels, including manager, and I think that will happen this Fall.  And even if Scioscia is not replaced, virtually everything around him will likely change to a pretty large degree, rendering his role to something that is more sharply defined.  In any event we can't control the direction, but it will keep our interest up on baseball this post season following the changes and dynamics.

Edited August 17, 2015 by tomsred

[Stradling]

Do people really believe Jerry is the one who pushed for Pujols and Hamilton?

Well Chuck heard straight from Dipoto that Arte never made him do anything, for what that's worth. Chuck mentioned that in direct connection with the Albert and Josh signings.

[Ohtaniland]

Well for what it's worth, in Reagins final year in 2011 we were 64-53 at this point of the season.

[Stradling]

Well for what it's worth, in Reagins final year in 2011 we were 64-53 at this point of the season.

And?

[NrM]

Well Chuck heard straight from Dipoto that Arte never made him do anything, for what that's worth. Chuck mentioned that in direct connection with the Albert and Josh signings.

 

I don't buy that for a second, but if true.. dipoto was the worst GM in angels history.

[Stradling]

I don't buy that for a second, but if true.. dipoto was the worst GM in angels history.

I struggle to believe it myself, but I have no idea why Chuck would lie. Remember Chuck was close to Jerry so this isn't a "support the team at all costs", thing from Chuck.

[NrM]

I struggle to believe it myself, but I have no idea why Chuck would lie. Remember Chuck was close to Jerry so this isn't a "support the team at all costs", thing from Chuck.

 

Don't think Chuck lied, but I doubt Dipoto would throw arte under the bus.

 

Not too many teams would be willing to hire him if he did.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Poozy

[robblin17]

Well Chuck heard straight from Dipoto that Arte never made him do anything, for what that's worth. Chuck mentioned that in direct connection with the Albert and Josh signings.

Dipoto would be a moron if he said anything differently.

How great would it have been had Dipoto said:

"Yeah, of course the guy that signs my checks forced me to sign these two albatrosses that will hinder this franchise for the next decade!"

[Stradling]

Dipoto would be a moron if he said anything differently.

How great would it have been had Dipoto said:

"Yeah, of course the guy that signs my checks forced me to sign these two albatrosses that will hinder this franchise for the next decade!"

Obviously I don't know the context of the conversations Chuck had with Jerry, but Chuck felt strong enough to post it here as fact.

[Ohtaniland]

Arte forced the trade for Vernon Wells so I'm not sure that he didn't have a hand in Pujols and Hamilton. Those transactions don't fit Jerry's style.

[Stradling]

Arte forced the trade for Vernon Wells so I'm not sure that he didn't have a hand in Pujols and Hamilton. Those transactions don't fit Jerry's style.

I agree and if anyone other than Chuck shared that I wouldn't have even listened.

[Ohtaniland]

I agree and if anyone other than Chuck shared that I wouldn't have even listened.

Chuck needs to let us experts determine and fabricate what really happened. Right?

[robblin17]

Obviously I don't know the context of the conversations Chuck had with Jerry, but Chuck felt strong enough to post it here as fact.

Oh, I'm not doubting he said that. I would just take it with a big grain of salt.

[NrM]

Arte forced the trade for Vernon Wells so I'm not sure that he didn't have a hand in Pujols and Hamilton. Those transactions don't fit Jerry's style.

 

I forgot about that... for some reason I attributed it mostly to reagins being incompetent.

 

 

 

On January 21, 2011, Wells was traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, in exchange for catcher Mike Napoli and outfielder Juan Rivera.^[9] Angels' owner Arte Moreno insisted on the trade, and reportedly told Tony Reagins, the general manager, that he would be fired if he did not acquire Wells within 24 hours.

 

 

**** Arte Moreno. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Poozy

[Ohtaniland]

I forgot about that... for some reason I attributed it mostly to reagins' being incompetent.

On January 21, 2011, Wells was traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, in exchange for catcher Mike Napoli and outfielder Juan Rivera.^[9] Angels' owner Arte Moreno insisted on the trade, and reportedly told Tony Reagins, the general manager, that he would be fired if he did not acquire Wells within 24 hours.

**** Arte Moreno.

I've said it many times...Reagins was a Patsy.

[Guest]

I forgot about that... for some reason I attributed it mostly to reagins being incompetent.

 

 

 

On January 21, 2011, Wells was traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, in exchange for catcher Mike Napoli and outfielder Juan Rivera.^[9] Angels' owner Arte Moreno insisted on the trade, and reportedly told Tony Reagins, the general manager, that he would be fired if he did not acquire Wells within 24 hours.

 

 

**** Arte Moreno. 

 

Looks like the source for that quote is the following: 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/scott-miller/23286878/broken-angels-tense-atmosphere-nearly-included-pujols-hunter-fight-in-2012

 

Wow, this is pretty d@m#ing stuff about the way Moreno runs his organization. Even if that account is embellished (e.g. the sources might be dissatisfied current or former administrative staff for the Angels), I'm sure it has at least a grain of truth, strongly suggesting that Arte pressured his GM's to make a lot of the most ridiculous moves in franchise history. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by ScottLux

[JoJo26]

Arte wanted Albert. He wanted the Latino crowd. His plan backfired right away when Albert sucked coming out of the gate and then Trout showed up in May and kicked butt.

Everyone fell in love with Trout - even Latinos - and Albert and his terrible hitting fell out of favor.

Trout was the Golden Ticket, and all Arte had left was a 10 year albatross.

This mess is all on Arte...PERIOD!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Do people really believe Jerry is the one who pushed for Pujols and Hamilton?

no. I dont. But theres been rumors...i still say it was arte, but theres definetely been rumors.

Either way, aside from those two moves, theres a few others dipo should be held to answer for....but i still think he did a good job.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I forgot about that... for some reason I attributed it mostly to reagins being incompetent.

On January 21, 2011, Wells was traded to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, in exchange for catcher Mike Napoli and outfielder Juan Rivera.^[9] Angels' owner Arte Moreno insisted on the trade, and reportedly told Tony Reagins, the general manager, that he would be fired if he did not acquire Wells within 24 hours.

**** Arte Moreno.

whats the link from that quote? Not saying it didnt happen...but asidw feom sounding a bit far fetched, it also is one of those things i doubt we would have ever heard about.

But i stand corrected if its a legait source.

[arch stanton]

Who's Jerry?

[tomsred]

whats the link from that quote? Not saying it didnt happen...but asidw feom sounding a bit far fetched, it also is one of those things i doubt we would have ever heard about.

But i stand corrected if its a legait source.

 

Yep, I would also like to see that source.

[tomsred]

Oh, I'm not doubting he said that. I would just take it with a big grain of salt.

 

Then you're doubting it, LOL.