prop 47

[Schildog]

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/en/propositions/47/

 

seems a good idea. discuss if you'd like.

[nate]

What are the property crimes?

[Jay]

I got a NO on that

[mtangelsfan]

Overall I think it is the right thing to do.  However, if the con about the date rape drug is correct, that part needs to be fixed.  No reason to have that.

[Schildog]

i assume the part about the felons being released is due to the new classifications of the crimes. am i right about that?

Edited October 30, 2014 by Schildog

[mtangelsfan]

I think so and I am fine with that.  Half the people in prison shouldn't be there anyway.  Stupid drug laws.

[nate]

Overall I think it is the right thing to do.  However, if the con about the date rape drug is correct, that part needs to be fixed.  No reason to have that.

 

People take the date rape drug recreationally.  I would think that if they were arrested for giving it to someone else it would not fall under this law.

[gotbeer]

What are the property crimes?

 

Ask Tank.

 

I'm a no on this one.  If i'm reading it right, makes all non violent crimes a misdemenor.  So pretty much auto thefts and home robberies, that don't involve violence would be a misdemenor?  How about if you jack an iphone from a store?  Pretty much a free pass for everyone to start doing petty crimes, just don't hurt anyone.  And if you don't like your neighbor, might as well tag their house.  

[arch stanton]

From what I was reading it just raises the felony threshold from $450 to $950 for the crimes in question.

[nate]

Yea to me all property crimes should result in jail time.  Anything you do that adversely effects someone else should be punishable by jail time.

[Schildog]

Ask Tank.

 

I'm a no on this one.  If i'm reading it right, makes all non violent crimes a misdemenor.  So pretty much auto thefts and home robberies, that don't involve violence would be a misdemenor?  How about if you jack an iphone from a store?  Pretty much a free pass for everyone to start doing petty crimes, just don't hurt anyone.  And if you don't like your neighbor, might as well tag their house.  

 

you can still go to jail for a misdemeanor you know. 

[TobiasFunke]

People take the date rape drug recreationally.

I bet you say that to all the girls you meet at clubs.

[Hollyw00d]

I'm voting yes for that.

It will probably be defeated though

[nate]

I bet you say that to all the girls you meet at clubs.

 

how dare you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am way too white to go to the club.

Edited October 30, 2014 by nate

[Jay]

I would vote for more prisons but that never seems to come up on the ballot.

[Tank]

"State savings spent on school truancy and dropout prevention,"

 

i'm calling bull on this.

[Tank]

Ask Tank.

 

I'm a no on this one.  If i'm reading it right, makes all non violent crimes a misdemenor.  So pretty much auto thefts and home robberies, that don't involve violence would be a misdemenor?  How about if you jack an iphone from a store?  Pretty much a free pass for everyone to start doing petty crimes, just don't hurt anyone.  And if you don't like your neighbor, might as well tag their house.  

 

valid points. the guy who broke into our house and jacked out identity documents has caused us a real pain and expense in getting them replaced and putting holds and alerts on all of our credit accounts. he has inconvenienced and possibly damaged us for potentially years to come, especially my daughter who hasn't even started her credit history. the stuff he took can be replaced - the access to pretend he's one of us is a lot more destructive. jail would be a nice place for him to think about what he did while we continue to try and repair the damage or any future potential damage.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

It seems like a sensible measure. I have seen people locked up for 25 years for stealing three cartons of cigarettes. One passage on the "con" side struck me as being completely wrong:

 

Potentially releases 10,000 felons from state prison. Reduces penalties for stealing guns. Reduces penalties for possession of "date rape" drugs. Opposed by prosecutors, law enforcement, and the business community. Opposed by crime victims and sexual abuse victims. Vote NO on Proposition 47.

 

Courts have consistently held that subsequently passed laws do not change previously imposed sentences. If it was a felony and subject to prison time when the inmate was convicted, that is all that matters. It doesn't retroactively become a misdemeanor with probation because a new law was passed. That is, of course, unless this provision is specifically included in the state question, which I don't imagine is the case.

 

The opposition from sexual abuse victims seems moot, since the question specifically states that the provisions don't apply to sex offenders.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Vegas Halo Fan

[gotbeer]

It seems like a sensible measure. I have seen people locked up for 25 years for stealing three cartons of cigarettes. One passage on the "con" side struck me as being completely wrong:

 

Potentially releases 10,000 felons from state prison. Reduces penalties for stealing guns. Reduces penalties for possession of "date rape" drugs. Opposed by prosecutors, law enforcement, and the business community. Opposed by crime victims and sexual abuse victims. Vote NO on Proposition 47.

 

Courts have consistently held that subsequently passed laws do not change previously imposed sentences. If it was a felony and subject to prison time when the inmate was convicted, that is all that matters. It doesn't retroactively become a misdemeanor with probation because a new law was passed. That is, of course, unless this provision is specifically included in the state question, which I don't imagine is the case.

 

The opposition from sexual abuse victims seems moot, since the question specifically states that the provisions don't apply to sex offenders.

 

 

This measure reduces penalties for certain offenders convicted of nonserious and nonviolent property and drug crimes. The measure also allows certain offenders who have been previously convicted of such crimes to apply for reduced sentences. http://votersedge.org/california/ballot-measures/2014/november/prop-47?jurisdictions=28.1.28-upper-ca.28.28-upper-ca#.VFQXYfnF_rk

 

So yes and no.  Not retroactive.  But they can apply to reduce.  And considering the huge amount of people in jail in CA, it'll probably be rubber stamped.

[floplag]

way too much gray area here...
conceptually ok i guess... though the interpretation on it is too far reaching i think

[LBHalos17]

I would seriously urge you all to search/read-up on this new ruling.  It seems like a good idea to save money on incarceration, but lessens penalties on some crimes that a lot of us see as "serious." 

I think it was written by tweakers, for tweakers because a lot of it relates to their specific type of crimes (Meth-heads who also do thefts and Burglaries).

 

Basically, it ups the value of loss for a Felony crime to $950.  That means, if your car, gun, or gun out of your locked car are stolen it is only a Misdemeanor unless the suspect is a sex-reg. or has a previous "Super Strike" (such as homicide).  Commercial Burglaries are now Misdemeanors (Ex. When a suspect goes into Target during business hours with the intent to steal something).  If your car is valued under $950, it is a Misdemeanor theft.

 

Possession of Meth, Heroin, Cocaine, and PCP to name a few are now Misdemeanors.  Possession for sale and Residential Burglary remain felonious.

 

I'm all for rehabbing users who aren't career-criminals, and I hope this Prop doesn't sink California.  I voted NO btw.

[Lou]

if you're driving a car worth less than $950, you might want to consider a life of crime yourself.

[Hollyw00d]

I would seriously urge you all to search/read-up on this new ruling.  It seems like a good idea to save money on incarceration, but lessens penalties on some crimes that a lot of us see as "serious." 

I think it was written by tweakers, for tweakers because a lot of it relates to their specific type of crimes (Meth-heads who also do thefts and Burglaries).

 

Basically, it ups the value of loss for a Felony crime to $950.  That means, if your car, gun, or gun out of your locked car are stolen it is only a Misdemeanor unless the suspect is a sex-reg. or has a previous "Super Strike" (such as homicide).  Commercial Burglaries are now Misdemeanors (Ex. When a suspect goes into Target during business hours with the intent to steal something).  If your car is valued under $950, it is a Misdemeanor theft.

 

Possession of Meth, Heroin, Cocaine, and PCP to name a few are now Misdemeanors.  Possession for sale and Residential Burglary remain felonious.

 

I'm all for rehabbing users who aren't career-criminals, and I hope this Prop doesn't sink California.  I voted NO btw.

Any legislation that lessens cops focus on petty crimes and drug offenses and puts more efforts into real police work I'm all for.

[mp170.6]

People take the date rape drug recreationally.  I would think that if they were arrested for giving it to someone else it would not fall under this law.

 

Or in my case, for medical purposes under the name Xyrem. 

 

I don't doubt it is used inappropriately, but my opinion of it changed once taking it.  I couldn't fall asleep with it.  Other people have had this problem as well. 

[Jason]

California was ordered by federal court to reduce their inmate population. That's what AB109 was supposed to do. It wasn't enough so Brown went to court to get a reprieve and they told him no so this is just another way to get those numbers down. I'm sure business are going to want to open up shop in California now.