OC Register: Angels weigh in on current rash of injuries to major-league pitchers

[AngelsWin.com]

BOSTON — Matt Moore recalled glancing up at a clubhouse television and seeing the words “Tommy John epidemic.”

It was 2013.

The 34-year-old Angels left-hander, who has been in the major leagues since 2011, was making the point that the current public discourse about pitching injuries is nothing new.

It’s also not simple.

“It’s too case-by-case to say why each person has gotten hurt,” Moore said. “It’s unfair to say it’s one thing.”

The recent spike in significant injuries to prominent pitchers — Shane Bieber of the Cleveland Guardians, Spencer Strider of the Atlanta Braves and Gerrit Cole of the New York Yankees among them – prompted the Major League Baseball Players’ Association to release a statement blaming the pitch timer for the injuries.

MLB followed with its own statement, saying that its studies have shown no connection between the timer and injuries.

The dueling statements felt to Cole like two divorced parents bickering instead of working together to find what is best for their children.

In the Angels’ clubhouse, the veteran pitchers agreed that there are probably multiple reasons that it seems more pitchers are getting hurt these days.

Three reasons, however, stood out among the others.

THE TIMER

Patrick Sandoval, the Angels’ union representative, said his first guess at the cause of the injuries is the pitch timer. Starting in 2023, pitchers had 15 seconds between pitches with the bases empty and 20 seconds with a runner on base. This year it was cut to 18 seconds with a runner on.

“I think the obvious answer, the glaring thing that’s different now, is the pitch clock,” Sandoval said. “I’m not a scientist or anything, but I think having an appropriate amount of time to gather yourself in between pitches is probably beneficial to pitchers. It seems like the league obviously doesn’t really care about that.”

Sandoval, a 27-year-old in his sixth major league season, said he didn’t feel an impact personally in 2023, but he believes that even “not realizing it, it adds up, all the time that’s no longer there. The body needs time to rest and recover.”

Reliever Carlos Estévez, 31, agreed that the timer might be at least partially responsible.

“We get less time to regroup in between pitches, and that’s given us less rest, more tension and more fatigue on our arms,” Estévez said. “That may have something to do with it.”

Angels television analyst Mark Gubicza, who pitched in the majors from 1984 to 1997, fired back on that theory, though.

“People are blaming the pitch timer, and I absolutely 100% do not agree with that,” Gubicza said. “We threw the ball within eight to 12 seconds every time.”

Gubicza, however, conceded that there is another difference in the way that pitchers threw those pitchers, from his era to today.

VELOCITY

The average fastball in 2008 – the first year when a consistent pitch tracking system was available throughout the game – was 91.1 mph. Anecdotally, it was certainly even slower back in 1980, 1990 or 2000.

In 2023, it was 93.3 mph.

The rise, pitchers say, is not simply because training has made pitchers stronger, but also because the philosophy has changed to have pitchers throw at 100% effort every time. Gubicza said in his day pitchers would hold back, allowing them to work deeper into games.

“When you’re throwing full max every single pitch, from bullpen sessions to game action, it’s taxing on our arm,” Gubicza said. “I don’t blame (the pitchers) at all. They’re being told ‘Just go as hard as you can for as long as you can.’”

Sandoval said he’s been raised to throw every pitch at 100%.

Estévez said the desire for velocity, combined with the clock, is a bad mix.

“If you’re trying to throw harder and you’re gonna try to use more your body, of course you’re gonna get even more tired when you have less time (between pitches),” Estévez said. “It’s gotta be both.”

THE BASEBALL

Left-hander Tyler Anderson, 34, said every time he gets a new baseball from an umpire, it’s a crap shoot.

“Sometimes it’s like a college baseball because the seams are so high,” Anderson said, “and then I’ll get one that’s nice. This feels like the old days, with no seams at all. They’re definitely inconsistent. I don’t remember them being as inconsistent.”

Inconsistency in itself can cause problems for pitchers, but Moore also suggested that a change in the balls is what led to the change in strategies for the hitters and the pitchers.

“The changing of the ball has switched the approach of the hitters, so now you’re pitching more toward swing and miss,” Moore said. “It was never a good idea to hit the ball in the air for the longest time, but something changed objectively with the instruments we use, and that led to something else.”

UP NEXT

Angels (LHP Reid Detmers, 2-0, 1.64 ERA) at Red Sox (TBD), Friday, 4:10 p.m. PT, Bally Sports West, 830 AM

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[James]

Sandoval can do better on the mound and with his takes off the mound. 

 

 

[Taylor]

10 minutes ago, James said:

Sandoval can do better on the mound and with his takes off the mound. 

He might be right though. It seems awfully coincidental that all these injuries are happening after the pitch clock was introduced.

[James]

24 minutes ago, Taylor said:

He might be right though. It seems awfully coincidental that all these injuries are happening after the pitch clock was introduced.

He said the league doesn't care about pitchers health. Thats a childish take. 

TJ surgeries have been hovering around 30% for the last 5 years or so. Last season it went to 34%. Seems like it more than the pitch clock. 

Edited April 11 by James

[Jeremiah]

I think it has most to do the increased velocity and spin combined with increased strikeouts. The more MLB is focused on three true outcomes, the more max effort pitches are thrown. Tricking hitters and pitching to the rights contact is where the real talent used to be. I’m sure umpires are still waiting for the final pitches from Greg Maddux and Jamie Moyer to cross the plate, and yet they could still control a baseball game. I don’t think the clock has as much to do with it as the change in approach to baseball does.

[Taylor]

52 minutes ago, James said:

He said the league doesn't care about pitchers health. Thats a childish take. 

TJ surgeries have been hovering around 30% for the last 5 years or so. Last season it went to 34%. Seems like it more than the pitch clock. 

That's his feeling on the matter. Do you think the MLB cares more about their viewership and profit margins, or the health or their players? Obviously if everyone is getting injured, it'll affect viewership. But don't underestimate a megacoporation's ability to put money over people.

[Taylor]

53 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

I think it has most to do the increased velocity and spin combined with increased strikeouts. The more MLB is focused on three true outcomes, the more max effort pitches are thrown. Tricking hitters and pitching to the rights contact is where the real talent used to be. I’m sure umpires are still waiting for the final pitches from Greg Maddux and Jamie Moyer to cross the plate, and yet they could still control a baseball game. I don’t think the clock has as much to do with it as the change in approach to baseball does.

I agree with this. There are plenty of factors. But I think the pitch clock thing is one of them.

[James]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

That's his feeling on the matter. Do you think the MLB cares more about their viewership and profit margins, or the health or their players? Obviously if everyone is getting injured, it'll affect viewership. But don't underestimate a megacoporation's ability to put money over people.

You just proved it was a childish take. 

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, James said:

You just proved it was a childish take. 

Then be an adult and explain why it's a childish take.

[James]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

Then be an adult and explain why it's a childish take.

Star players hurt is not a net positive for the league. Therefore, jumping to what he said is likely a quick response without much thought. Its immature and something a child would do. 

 

[Angel Oracle]

I agree with the increased velocity/spin rate takes.    

Of course there are a few who can throw hard a lot and stay healthy, like Nolan Ryan.

Part of it possibly depends on what each pitcher’s body can withstand.

Part of it is doing the right exercises to keep the arm and body strong.

Ryan would exercise his arm in a bucket of rice, and also do a lot of running to keep the legs strong.

 

Edited April 11 by Angel Oracle

[Taylor]

56 minutes ago, James said:

Star players hurt is not a net positive for the league. Therefore, jumping to what he said is likely a quick response without much thought. Its immature and something a child would do. 

 

Is this how the NFL felt about concussions? Why did it take a big investigation, years and years and years of denial by the league, and a massive effort to get the NFL to finally change protocols?

[Jeremiah]

23 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I agree with the increased velocity/spin rate takes.    

Of course there are a few who can throw hard a lot and stay healthy, like Nolan Ryan.

Part of it possibly depends on what each pitcher’s body can withstand.

Part of it is doing the right exercises to keep the arm and body strong.

Ryan would exercise his arm in a bucket of rice, and also do a lot of running to keep the legs strong.

 

I think this also a big part of it. Over the decades we’ve seen increased specialization in baseball, especially as it relates to pitchers. Along with that we’ve seen increased pitching academies and “experts.” I’m sure most are legit, but the idea is more about getting kids drafted or signed. Velocity, and the mechanics to get it, are probably the easiest path. So that’s what is emphasized. The NCAA and MLB want players who throw hard and put spin on the ball, whether or not that is necessarily a pitcher’s strength. Not everyone throws gas. Add in how much fans want fastball numbers on the scoreboard, and the way the NCAA absolutely abuses pitchers, and there’s plenty of blame to go around. That said, I tend to agree with Gubi’s take that the clock has little, if anything to do with it. For example, Mark Buehrle used to go about 15 seconds between pitches.

[James]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Is this how the NFL felt about concussions? Why did it take a big investigation, years and years and years of denial by the league, and a massive effort to get the NFL to finally change protocols?

Thats a different organization and much different circumstances. You have deaths etc. associated with the NFL topic and possible lawsuits due to it. What they did was wrong but you are reaching here, imo. 

Sandoval responded like he does when an error occurs while he is on the mound. Flying off the handle and saying they don't care about health with little to no proof is crazy. 

The NFL players had this proof that the NFL didn't care based on medical facts that had been found. There are no medical facts that say these pitching injuries are due to a rule change. The numbers don't back it either as of now, maybe that changes in the future. 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, James said:

Thats a different organization and much different circumstances. You have deaths etc. associated with the NFL topic and possible lawsuits due to it. What they did was wrong but you are reaching here, imo. 

Sandoval responded like he does when an error occurs while he is on the mound. Flying off the handle and saying they don't care about health with little to no proof is crazy. 

The NFL players had this proof that the NFL didn't care based on medical facts that had been found. There are no medical facts that say these pitching injuries are due to a rule change. The numbers don't back it either as of now, maybe that changes in the future. 

I get that they're not exact 1:1 comparisons. Obviously the NFL concussion issue was causing players a lifetime worth of lingering problems.

My point is that I wouldn't be quick to declare the MLB morally superior to the NFL. Sandoval isn't offering any "proof," but he's a pitcher in the MLB and that's his perspective. Unless you're a former major leaguer, you and I don't have any insider's perspective on this stuff. 

He could be totally wrong and playing some kind of victim card. But I wouldn't dismiss his claims outright.

[Angelsfan1984]

When did driveline open? Could be the year round intense workouts instead of resting their arms in the offseason. Throwing a baseball is an unnatural range of motion and doing it year round must be horrendous on the body. 

[CaliAngel]

30 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Throwing a baseball is an unnatural range of motion and doing it year round must be horrendous on the body. 

Oh, absolutely. I can't imagine throwing 90+ pitches 90+ mph every 5 days six months out of the year. 7 months if you make the playoffs.

I've always been surprised we don't hear more stories from former pitchers about their arms years down the line, I imagine there has to be some long term fatigue or pain. Unable to lift certain weight, pain when reaching, etc.

The pitch clock being a newer addition, I'd say we have to wait a couple seasons to see if the injuries continue to increase, level off, or possibly decrease. But something had to be done about the time between pitches, the constant milking time from pitchers really became a nuisance, so perhaps they need to find a happy medium that satisfies pitchers time between each pitch and game time.

I think what Gubie says has the most merit. Throwing as hard as you can from the first pitch of the game to the last, and the constant analytics on spin rate for off speed pitches has been too much of an evolution too fast.

I know one thing, if I played pro ball the last thing I'd want to be is a pitcher. My arm is just too valuable to me, and I can't imagine having to go through Tommy John surgery. What these guys do out there still blows my mind, it's nothing short of an enigma to me.

[Taylor]

9 minutes ago, CaliAngel said:

Oh, absolutely. I can't imagine throwing 90+ pitches 90+ mph every 5 days six months out of the year. 7 months if you make the playoffs.

But you could hit a 90+ pitch, allegedly.

[redoctober2002]

2 hours ago, Jeremiah said:

The NCAA and MLB want players who throw hard and put spin on the ball

This is where it starts. The best kids are playing travel ball year round and so by the time they get to that level they already have a ton of hard innings on their arm.

Add in once you get to a high level pitching labs and coaches are instructing how to push your body to the limit at max effort every pitch and it's no wonder they break down. These things were being brought up years ago, but since so many are bought into the status quo nothing was done about it.

Last time this was a discussion it was over the recent ban of sticky stuff. Now it's the pitch clock. In a year or two when this happens again they'll probably blame something else.

[Angel Oracle]

There is definitely too much “I feel the need for speed and spin rate.” in today’s MLB.

[CaliAngel]

Want to talk arm injuries?

This dude Mason Miller for the A's is throwing against the Yanks right now, and he's hitting 101. 

101 MPH+ pitches this year, he's had 42

Rest of the league, all other pitchers? 36

How could there possibly be arm injuries? This dude is insane. 

Just to throw that out there, the A's have the best jerseys in all of sport. They're sick as hell. 

 

[CaliAngel]

Soto whiffed at a 102 and was pissed, lol