Tim Salmon & Chuck Finley to be in-dugout "advisors"

[Jay]

2 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Looks to be high priced babysitters.

I see it as a good thing. Now the players will be forced to listen to Tim Salmon's stories, so we don't have to.

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I see it as a good thing. Now the players will be forced to listen to Tim Salmon's stories, so we don't have to.

If they wanted to punish the players they would have suited up Gubicza. 

[Palomar]

It IS kind of like Spring Training for some of the young guys and if they get some encouragement or even told they screwed up and what to do the next time, what is wrong with that? Usually they are in AA and AAA a few years and have lived this lifestyle awhile before coming up.   I imagine at this point, Nevin just wants to turn this around to something positive anyway he can.  

[Swordsman78]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

@Swordsman78 - Serious question.  Why are you such a staunch supporter of Nevin?  I'm genuinely curious.  Help us understand why you defend him so much.

Off topic but if you feel the answer is relevant, here it is:

Since joining this board last season, I noticed that imo an inordinate amount of blame for the Angels failures have been  pinned to the manager, while the players (generally) are allowed to skate, and if they do something stupid and basic, such as throw to the wrong base, can't get a bunt down, etc. posters here blame the manager for not coaching them the right thing to do.

IMO the organization needs stability in the GM and manager roles.  Nevin is the 3rd manager since 2019.  Due to all the injuries this year, I don't believe (imo) that we can truly judge his competence.  Obviously some of his game time decisions have not worked out, but other have worked out. 

Based on what has been written publicaly the players seem to like and respect Nevin.  Nevin seems to  be 100% invested in the Angels, and imo he genuinely cares more than anyone about the success of the team, and the failures are visibly making him suffer.  Listening to his post game pressers, he understands the game, and his players limitations much more that the public.

IMO the impact of Nevin's BP decisions etc. would result in a +/- 3 wins as of today.  He is a brand new manager and will make mistakes.   But we also don't really know how much control the "data guys" have in pitching/hitting philosophy, player (BP) availability on a day to day basis etc.

Perry can go ahead and do what he wants, but he and we can't keep making the manager the scape goat, and being the one person being held accountable for organizational failure since 2015.  IMO this masks core issues, and prevents a deep dive into what systemic problems should be addressed.

Yes I am in favor of extending Nevin due to the above factors, but if given a playoff worthy roster, and the amount of  IL players are less than the league average, and the Angels still don't make the playoffs, then I would support a change.

[BTH]

The real punishment would be making Bobby V interim manager.

[BTH]

17 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Based on what has been written publicaly the players seem to like and respect Nevin.

Why does it matter that the players like and respect Nevin?

Clearly, that hasn’t helped to lead to success.

It’s about results, not feelings.

[Blarg]

21 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Off topic but if you feel the answer is relevant, here it is:

Since joining this board last season, I noticed that imo an inordinate amount of blame for the Angels failures have been  pinned to the manager, while the players (generally) are allowed to skate, and if they do something stupid and basic, such as throw to the wrong base, can't get a bunt down, etc. posters here blame the manager for not coaching them the right thing to do.

IMO the organization needs stability in the GM and manager roles.  Nevin is the 3rd manager since 2019.  Due to all the injuries this year, I don't believe (imo) that we can truly judge his competence.  Obviously some of his game time decisions have not worked out, but other have worked out. 

Based on what has been written publicaly the players seem to like and respect Nevin.  Nevin seems to  be 100% invested in the Angels, and imo he genuinely cares more than anyone about the success of the team, and the failures are visibly making him suffer.  Listening to his post game pressers, he understands the game, and his players limitations much more that the public.

IMO the impact of Nevin's BP decisions etc. would result in a +/- 3 wins as of today.  He is a brand new manager and will make mistakes.   But we also don't really know how much control the "data guys" have in pitching/hitting philosophy, player (BP) availability on a day to day basis etc.

Perry can go ahead and do what he wants, but he and we can't keep making the manager the scape goat, and being the one person being held accountable for organizational failure since 2015.  IMO this masks core issues, and prevents a deep dive into what systemic problems should be addressed.

Yes I am in favor of extending Nevin due to the above factors, but if given a playoff worthy roster, and the amount of  IL players are less than the league average, and the Angels still don't make the playoffs, then I would support a change.

[Swordsman78]

5 minutes ago, BTH said:

Why does it matter that the players like and respect Nevin?

Clearly, that hasn’t helped to lead to success.

It’s about results, not feelings.

Your point is valid in a vacuum.   Obviously there are multiple factors contributing to the lack of success this year.  I'm not going to reiterate them again because your post history indicates you don't care. 

[T.G.]

I don't know who brought in Salmon and Finley, but I'm going to guess Nevin did have a role in it.  I see Nevin as an "old school" guy and he probably relates to "old school" guys like Salmon and Finley.  Finley was a grinder.  I think Nevin was a grinder.  I don't think it's all that far fetched that he had a role in bringing them in. 

As I said earlier - it doesn't really matter who had the idea.  The whole organization needs to be evaluated.

Nevin impressed me early on when he seem to have more confidence in his starting pitchers instead of giving them the quick hook.  I think it was last year when he had just taken over as the interim manager when he went out to the mound to visit Suarez and most thought he was going to take him out.  He didn't.  He showed confidence in the player.  I liked that. 

I'm not saying Nevin is the answer.  I'm also not saying he's to blame.  I really don't know.  A number of factors have led to this team sucking this year - and at the top of the list is injuries.  Number 2 is pitching.  This team was projected to have good pitching and it didn't materialize.  Is it because of the analytics?  Coaching?  How the stars aligned?  I have no idea. 

Lots of fans want to assign blame.  I don't give a rip.  I'd rather they just find solutions.  You don't have to assign blame to find solutions. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again now.  This team has a culture problem.  I'm not going to get into that too deep now.  Maybe another day. 

I've also said this before... it all starts with ownership.  Arte has failed, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will continue to fail.  He seems to be changing - although slowly, he's been different the last couple years.  Can he figure it out?  I don't know.  All I know is he owns the team and that's out of my control.  It is what it is. 

I doubt he's happy with how things have played out.  I don't believe that all he cares about his revenue.  I think he wants to win - he  just doesn't know how.  Maye he's learning.  Time will tell.

 

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I doubt he's happy with how things have played out.  I don't believe that all he cares about his revenue.  I think he wants to win - he  just doesn't know how.  Maye he's learning.  Time will tell.

Yep.

I don’t doubt that he wants to win, but he’s just misguided and stubborn in getting there.

It also might be he wants to win his way, not someone else’s way.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

Off topic but if you feel the answer is relevant, here it is:

Since joining this board last season, I noticed that imo an inordinate amount of blame for the Angels failures have been  pinned to the manager, while the players (generally) are allowed to skate, and if they do something stupid and basic, such as throw to the wrong base, can't get a bunt down, etc. posters here blame the manager for not coaching them the right thing to do.

IMO the organization needs stability in the GM and manager roles.  Nevin is the 3rd manager since 2019.  Due to all the injuries this year, I don't believe (imo) that we can truly judge his competence.  Obviously some of his game time decisions have not worked out, but other have worked out. 

Based on what has been written publicaly the players seem to like and respect Nevin.  Nevin seems to  be 100% invested in the Angels, and imo he genuinely cares more than anyone about the success of the team, and the failures are visibly making him suffer.  Listening to his post game pressers, he understands the game, and his players limitations much more that the public.

IMO the impact of Nevin's BP decisions etc. would result in a +/- 3 wins as of today.  He is a brand new manager and will make mistakes.   But we also don't really know how much control the "data guys" have in pitching/hitting philosophy, player (BP) availability on a day to day basis etc.

Perry can go ahead and do what he wants, but he and we can't keep making the manager the scape goat, and being the one person being held accountable for organizational failure since 2015.  IMO this masks core issues, and prevents a deep dive into what systemic problems should be addressed.

Yes I am in favor of extending Nevin due to the above factors, but if given a playoff worthy roster, and the amount of  IL players are less than the league average, and the Angels still don't make the playoffs, then I would support a change.

I'm also going to guess that you're a Titan alum.  Maybe you watched Nevin lead the Titans to a College World Series and have a deep appreciation for him.  I'm thinking there has to be some level of connection you're not sharing with us -  not that you have to share that.  It only makes sense that there's some sort of connection.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, BTH said:

The real punishment would be making Bobby V interim manager.

Hey Now! Bobby V is the ultimate "Yes" guy and just thinks everyone shyts rainbows...

[Slegnaac]

19 hours ago, Taylor said:

Why not Pujols?

Why not Moustakas?

[CaliforniaYankee]

If there going to do something like this, definitely get Erstad involved. IMHO

[tomsred]

28 minutes ago, CaliforniaYankee said:

If there going to do something like this, definitely get Erstat involved. IMHO

Who is Erstat?  We don't need another stat guy, LOL.

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, BTH said:

The real punishment would be making Bobby V interim manager.

I will absolutely take Nevin over Valentine.

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, BTH said:

Why does it matter that the players like and respect Nevin?

Clearly, that hasn’t helped to lead to success.

It’s about results, not feelings.

The players have to respect the manager.  

[BTH]

45 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The players have to respect the manager.  

I guess.

Though we don’t know if they do, outside of outdated quotes from Spring.

[Stradling]

22 minutes ago, BTH said:

I guess.

Though we don’t know if they do, outside of outdated quotes from Spring.

I have no idea if they do but a team must respect their manager. 

[Lazorko Saves]

4 hours ago, T.G. said:

Nevin impressed me early on when he seem to have more confidence in his starting pitchers instead of giving them the quick hook

I agree with this, but it's still somewhat faint praise.  It impresses us only because we're so traumatized by all those times Ausmus pulled the starter in the 3rd/4th with only 45-55 pitches thrown, purely because there was a couple of runners on and the third time through the lineup was coming.

[Duren, Duren]

He may be a nice guy, and it isn't his fault, but every time Salmon is a visitor to the Angels broadcast they keep repeating the same stories and anecdotes. Especially the 2002 season and series.

It just seems redundant. But since it's a team broadcast you'd think most viewers have already heard his stories before. As well, he can't really be blunt about discussing individuals. 

I guess he's had to deal with a slew of play by play guys over recent years and may feel he has to repeat the same stories for each of them. 

The broadcast booth has been as unsettled as the team. O'Neil, Vasgergian, Randazzo at times  this season alone. Each with their own separate deals.

 

 

[disarcina]

I see this as an upgrade.  Hey, at this point, almost anything can help.

someone explain to me the Halos deadline deal and dump stuff?  I know it. got the Halos 'maybe' under the luxury tax (actually it didn't - but lessened the luxury tax 'penalty fine' amount) but GEEZ there's has to be a better way to do that than to give up some good prospects for truly shorter than short term rental players.

I just see the franchise and the front office in free fall.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, disarcina said:

I see this as an upgrade.  Hey, at this point, almost anything can help.

someone explain to me the Halos deadline deal and dump stuff?  I know it. got the Halos 'maybe' under the luxury tax (actually it didn't - but lessened the luxury tax 'penalty fine' amount) but GEEZ there's has to be a better way to do that than to give up some good prospects for truly shorter than short term rental players.

I just see the franchise and the front office in free fall.

I’ll explain it. They went for it, the team played like shit, they cut bait. 

[BTH]

3 hours ago, Lazorko Saves said:

I agree with this, but it's still somewhat faint praise.  It impresses us only because we're so traumatized by all those times Ausmus pulled the starter in the 3rd/4th with only 45-55 pitches thrown, purely because there was a couple of runners on and the third time through the lineup was coming.

and Joe Maddon made mid-inning pitching changes like his life depended on it.

That guy would not let pitchers finish an inning, almost as if he was over-managing to try and show "I'm smarter than you guys."

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:11 PM, Angels 1961 said:

Seems it would not hurt to have them in dugout. Makes other coaches look bad. Advisors are they going to be in ear of younger players. Could they talk to Rendon find anything out.

I'm wondering if this is a prelude to them becoming full time coaches. It does seem like an awkward situation for the coaches who are already in place.