Tim Salmon & Chuck Finley to be in-dugout "advisors"

[Swordsman78]

Just now, Lhalo said:

This team is sofa king awful that both the fans and ownership are grasping for makeshift coaches that the franchise either let go or rehired as commentators. I mean WTF is going on here?

+1

[jsnpritchett]

10 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

This team is sofa king awful that both the fans and ownership are grasping for makeshift coaches that the franchise either let go or rehired as commentators. I mean WTF is going on here?

Bob Nightengale tweeted that Rob Wilfong and Don Aase will also be in uniform and in the dugout starting tomorrow. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Bob Nightengale tweeted that Rob Wilfong and Don Aase will also be in uniform and in the dugout starting tomorrow. 

Hey Now....

 Don is a great guy! As was Frosty Bear.

[Swordsman78]

35 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Bob Nightengale tweeted that Rob Wilfong and Don Aase will also be in uniform and in the dugout starting tomorrow. 

LOL Rob Wilfong!  Haven't heard that name in eons.  

Edited September 5, 2023 by Swordsman78

[gurn67]

All I remember of Rob Wilfong is he got the game tying hit in the bottom of the 9th of Game 5 of the 1986 ALCS, but for some inexplicable reason, did not go to 2nd on the throw home. Schofield came up next, got a base hit to left center field which would have scored Wilfong from 2nd with the game winning RBI, but instead Wilfong went 1st to 3rd and got stranded there.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, gurn67 said:

All I remember of Rob Wilfong is he got the game tying hit in the bottom of the 9th of Game 5 of the 1986 ALCS, but for some inexplicable reason, did not go to 2nd on the throw home. Schofield came up next, got a base hit to left center field which would have scored Wilfong from 2nd with the game winning RBI, but instead Wilfong went 1st to 3rd and got stranded there.

They're bringing him in as a baserunning advisor.

[Tank]

6 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

"Who are you guys? Names don't ring a bell."

"hey chuck, let's remind this knucklehead who we are."

[Tank]

with salmon back in uniform, this would be a great time for grichuk to give him back his number, a number which should have been retired years ago and hung on the wall in right field.

[full circle]

3 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

No, I didn't say that. I think he has tried to bring in guys who he thought had some knowledge. But, then again. The swing for lift box for even a little dude like Velazquez doesn't equate. Swing early and often doesnt equate either if you have no pitch recognition. Or, knowledge of the strike zone. They also are very much guess hitters. When you put it all in a box and shake it up....You see what you get.. So, I don't truly know what their hitting Philosophy is....

I do know that what you've seen is pretty much on point as Thames & Plantiers careers....

You make some points I agree with, however a hitting coaches playing career often has little to do with how his team hits.  If that were the case, Ted Williams and Barry Bonds would’ve made great hitting coaches, they didn’t.
 

From my perspective, with no direct knowledge whatsoever, just many years involved in baseball, the Angels look like a team who’s become over reliant on data to the point the players think like robots, instead of athletes.  They’ve lost the feel for how the game needs to be played, and it shows up in every aspect.  

[full circle]

47 minutes ago, Tank said:

with salmon back in uniform, this would be a great time for grichuk to give him back his number, a number which should have been retired years ago and hung on the wall in right field.

It’s kinda weird that it hasn’t been retired already…

[Duren, Duren]

Bringing in former franchise greats to talk to current players  was something very common in the past. But usually done in spring training. Often it was casual and informal. Sometimes it was more tutorial and technical. But not threatening to the full time staff. Just another resource for preparation of the upcoming season. 

The term 'advisor' was used loosely sometimes. Or just looked at as a feel good visit meant for morale. And because it often took place in spring training there was no real threat to managers or coaches. In fact many of those were former team mates or peers and there was casual reminiscing  and banter. 

These scenarios also do take place occasionally during the season. But usually are very short term. 

It's quite a different story with the Angels now. It can be construed as an indictment of Nevin and the extended staff. A sign of desperation based on bewilderment of how things have unravelled. And the need to seek advice and help from outside that circle. 

Or it could just be a benign attempt at boosting morale. Particularly amongst the young, raw prospects. Initiation into the real world of major league competition and constant pressures. As former respected Angels it's important to show continuity and pride in the uniform. Despite current issues. 

I would expect a low key approach, mixed with some levity to diffuse tensions. And respect for Nevin being the proper etiquette. 

Hopefully whatever insights emerge will be part of the maturation process for the young guys. And take hold next season when everyone has a clean slate.  For the veterans? Probably commiserate about the bad breaks and try and get them into the right attitude to earn a  major league spot next year. 

 

 

 

[tomsred]

I don't think they are wearing numbers Tank, they are "advisers."  They were wearing Angels sweatshirts, and hats.  Advisers don't make decisions like managers or coaches do.  From what I saw tonight that seems to be the case.

 

[full circle]

Is there a precedent for any other team doing this?  Maybe there is and I’m just not aware?  I mean already with there being multiple pitching coaches and hitting coaches it seems there should be enough bodies in there to help, guess not.  

[tomsred]

Some of you guys are way over the top when it comes to complaining.  You tend to take partial factual evidence then turn into something that has no credibility.  That's the nature of social media today.  Listen to the latest podcast from Victor, Jeff and Chuck,  it's right on the mark.  All off us are fans, we have no real evidence to seriously advise anyone even in this organization.  If you want to continually degrade the decision makers in the Angels organization have at it, it's a country of free speech, especially on social media. But there comes a point when you have to realize that we are outsiders without the factually based expertise to provide credible answers to underachievement.  Over the years we have been observers to underachievement, that's baseball for all teams.  I think it's better to look for the positives, have some fun, and roll with it. If someone told me the future will be that the Angels will never go to the playoffs again, I'll still be a fan, watch games on TV, and go to some games as well.  I've said this before, it's like reading a book, and many good books don't end positively.  The fun is in the details, don't be young and old bitter persons.   

[EDinTUSTIN]

6 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I wonder if this is a precursor to the current staff getting axe before or at season end and possibly getting Salmon and Finley some experiencing coaching? 

I was thinking the same thing. 

[EDinTUSTIN]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yes. A managers job is always to lead. If he’s afraid to lead or make decisions because of his contract status then he shouldn’t be managing at all. He’s not just managing for an extension he’s managing for any possible employer that may want to hire him. No one is hiring a dude who can’t lead or doesn’t make decisions. 

This!

[T-angel]

This is just straight weird. But I can see Nevin and Wise get the boot sometime soon and have Salmon and Finley take over as the interim manager and pitching coach. No need to have them here if Nevin and Wise were going to be here to the end of the season. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

4 hours ago, full circle said:

You make some points I agree with, however a hitting coaches playing career often has little to do with how his team hits.  If that were the case, Ted Williams and Barry Bonds would’ve made great hitting coaches, they didn’t.
 

From my perspective, with no direct knowledge whatsoever, just many years involved in baseball, the Angels look like a team who’s become over reliant on data to the point the players think like robots, instead of athletes.  They’ve lost the feel for how the game needs to be played, and it shows up in every aspect.  

True to a point but also with the two former that you mentioned neither were what would be considered team players and both were dycks with young players. Who didn't grasp quickly as coaches.

I've responded in numerous threads regarding your thought process. ALL players do not fit into the same Box.

Agree overall. But, Thames overall was meh and Plantier shined bright then he had health issues.

[Swordsman78]

8 hours ago, Duren, Duren said:

Bringing in former franchise greats to talk to current players  was something very common in the past. But usually done in spring training. Often it was casual and informal. Sometimes it was more tutorial and technical. But not threatening to the full time staff. Just another resource for preparation of the upcoming season. 

The term 'advisor' was used loosely sometimes. Or just looked at as a feel good visit meant for morale. And because it often took place in spring training there was no real threat to managers or coaches. In fact many of those were former team mates or peers and there was casual reminiscing  and banter. 

These scenarios also do take place occasionally during the season. But usually are very short term. 

It's quite a different story with the Angels now. It can be construed as an indictment of Nevin and the extended staff. A sign of desperation based on bewilderment of how things have unravelled. And the need to seek advice and help from outside that circle. 

Or it could just be a benign attempt at boosting morale. Particularly amongst the young, raw prospects. Initiation into the real world of major league competition and constant pressures. As former respected Angels it's important to show continuity and pride in the uniform. Despite current issues. 

I would expect a low key approach, mixed with some levity to diffuse tensions. And respect for Nevin being the proper etiquette. 

Hopefully whatever insights emerge will be part of the maturation process for the young guys. And take hold next season when everyone has a clean slate.  For the veterans? Probably commiserate about the bad breaks and try and get them into the right attitude to earn a  major league spot next year. 

 

 

 

The only way that Salmon et. al will be allowed in the dugout is if it was Nevins idea in the first place. 

IF having these guys in the dugout is not Nevins idea and an "indictment" against Nevin, then i am pretty sure he would have resigned.

[ten ocho recon scout]

For nostalgia this is pretty cool, though I have no idea if jt will help anything.

But maybe 2 years ago I was talking to Finley (a buddy of mine knows him). Won't get into what we talked about, but I'll be curious of he's being brought in to change up from what the pitchers have been told per that recent story regarding analytics.

Finley wasn't too big on that type of stuff...

So that might be interesting.

[Angel Oracle]

One thing is for sure.

They need to do some pumping the brakes on overuse of analytics.

One size fits all is NOT how a MLB team should run things.

[Tank]

9 hours ago, tomsred said:

I don't think they are wearing numbers Tank, they are "advisers."  They were wearing Angels sweatshirts, and hats.  Advisers don't make decisions like managers or coaches do.  From what I saw tonight that seems to be the case.

 

i noticed that as well, but i was going off the announcement that said they would be "in uniform." that suggested to me that they'd be more similar to a coach than a batboy. 

regardless of what they do, his number (and GA's) should have been retired years ago. i'm interested in whatever i can do as a fan to publicly push for that to happen.

[Hubs]

17 hours ago, Stradling said:

This current coaching staff shouldn’t worry about what this looks like. The team has shit the bed and I haven’t seen an adjustment made. 

This current staff is going to be out of a job in three plus weeks.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

The only way that Salmon et. al will be allowed in the dugout is if it was Nevins idea in the first place. 

IF having these guys in the dugout is not Nevins idea and an "indictment" against Nevin, then i am pretty sure he would have resigned.

Oh, so it's his idea to have guys evaluating and helping him coach? He's hoping they bring him back, but this is an indictment.

[Swordsman78]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Oh, so it's his idea to have guys evaluating and helping him coach? He's hoping they bring him back, but this is an indictment.

Yes its his idea to have someone in the dugout to mentor the rookies because the Marquee vets are either not there (trout), don't speak english (ohtani), or dont give a shit (Rendon).