RBIs

[ten ocho recon scout]

So obviously sabermetrics has shown that RBI is a poor stat to gauge players by. And I still agree with that.

Still...

I think what happened was when the argument was made (and proven) that its a poor stat to value hitters by, people may have gone overboard and decided its a "useless" stat. (At least some people).

But watching this team, recently and in years past, there's something to be said about guys who come through with runners on. It's really frustrating watching this team waste those opportunities. 

I'll add here that AVG has been downplayed the past two decades, and I get why (same as the RBI debate). But again, there's something to be said about guys who put the ball in play (and not make an out).

I dunno. I'd just like to see this team get some higher average guys who can drive runners home. Maybe it's the same as every other team, who knows. But this gets frustrating.

[Blarg]

I'm pretty much done with the stat excuse making for .240 hitters that hit 25 home runs but strike out 180 times. 

[Revad]

12 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But this gets frustrating.

Drury and Rengifo especially.  If those guys start hitting things will be different.

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'm pretty much done with the stat excuse making for .240 hitters that hit 25 home runs but strike out 180 times. 

The thing is, almost all of baseball has trended that way. And who knows, maybe it makes more sense? (I have no idea).

But we're seeing what that line of thinking has led to.... and it sucks.

Maybe the new way is more efficient. Maybe it actually works better. But it doesn't seem like it...

GA was always underrated because he didn't walk a lot. But damn if that guy didn't come through a lot with gap hits when people were on.

Side note, I'm a huge fan of guys who hit lots of doubles. And GA was a doubles machine.

[BTH]

4 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think what happened was when the argument was made (and proven) that its a poor stat to value hitters by, people may have gone overboard and decided its a "useless" stat. (At least some people).

I actually think RBIs could be useful, IF it was measured in a percentage.

How am I supposed to compare a counting stat in RBI? It’s not like HRs or SBs. It’s incredibly difficult to compare across different sample sizes. I’d prefer some sort of  RBI rate or percentage.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Trendon

[drpiranha]

I know that they have stats for the all the things I'm going to mention, but they are rarely revealed to the public. The things I would be interested in are OBP when leading off an inning. RBI % with runner or runners in scoring position (which would be total runs knocked in divided by # of chances. % success moving a runner to 3B with less than 2 out. These numbers would be very revealing.

[TroutField]

5 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The thing is, almost all of baseball has trended that way. And who knows, maybe it makes more sense? (I have no idea).

But we're seeing what that line of thinking has led to.... and it sucks.

Maybe the new way is more efficient. Maybe it actually works better. But it doesn't seem like it...

GA was always underrated because he didn't walk a lot. But damn if that guy didn't come through a lot with gap hits when people were on.

Side note, I'm a huge fan of guys who hit lots of doubles. And GA was a doubles machine.

Howie Kendrick was the same. The homerun power never really developed, but man the guy could drive double into the gap with the best of them .

[Tank]

7 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So obviously sabermetrics has shown that RBI is a poor stat to gauge players by. And I still agree with that.

Still...

I think what happened was when the argument was made (and proven) that its a poor stat to value hitters by, people may have gone overboard and decided its a "useless" stat. (At least some people).

But watching this team, recently and in years past, there's something to be said about guys who come through with runners on. It's really frustrating watching this team waste those opportunities. 

I'll add here that AVG has been downplayed the past two decades, and I get why (same as the RBI debate). But again, there's something to be said about guys who put the ball in play (and not make an out).

I dunno. I'd just like to see this team get some higher average guys who can drive runners home. Maybe it's the same as every other team, who knows. But this gets frustrating.

i agree with you about rbis. the goal on offense is to score runs, and there ought to be appreciation for the guys that can drive in those runs. want to measure this some other way? okay, take a shot, but the rbi is simple and easy to understand. i think it still has a place of value in this day and age. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

i agree with you about rbis. the goal on offense is to score runs, and there ought to be appreciation for the guys that can drive in those runs. want to measure this some other way? okay, take a shot, but the rbi is simple and easy to understand. i think it still has a place of value in this day and age. 

I think it's a legit point that RBI is married to guys getting on base in front of you. So some (if not most) guys with huge totals owe a debt to the guys in front of them. And others with lower numbers are hurt by weak lineups.

But again, there should be credit given to guys when they actually do get hits when they have runners on.

I am still a believer that it's a poor state to judge guys by. That said, watching this team the past several years fail with guys in scoring position time after time.... makes you appreciate how important it is to hit when it's going to count.

[Brandon]

7 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The thing is, almost all of baseball has trended that way. And who knows, maybe it makes more sense? (I have no idea).

But we're seeing what that line of thinking has led to.... and it sucks.

Maybe the new way is more efficient. Maybe it actually works better. But it doesn't seem like it...

GA was always underrated because he didn't walk a lot. But damn if that guy didn't come through a lot with gap hits when people were on.

Side note, I'm a huge fan of guys who hit lots of doubles. And GA was a doubles machine.

A friend of GA is a friend of mine

[Stradling]

Runner on third less than two outs I want Rendon up to bat. 

[WicketMaiden]

19 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Maybe the new way is more efficient. Maybe it actually works better. But it doesn't seem like it...
 

The Sabermetricians don't factor into their thinking that this is an entertainment business built on the back on a sport, not just a sport. It may well be more efficient to always swing for the fences, and be more efficient not to steal bases or try for the extra base, and that all may lead to more wins overall, but it's incredibly boring to watch.

The first thing that attracted me to the Angels was the way they played baseball during Scioscia's early years. It was dynamic and interesting, with lots of moving parts and on-field action, and you could see how frustrating they were to play against by the body language of the opposing players, chasing bunts, slaps into the gaps and line drives into the channels as the Angels batted around, again. We had line-ups full of players with .300 averages that were a nightmare for opposing pitchers on the bases and almost always challenged the fielders to execute perfectly or lose an extra base. Great fun to watch, even when they lost.

Re the RBI thing: a 'Clutch' metric would be handy, showing a ratio of opportunities to successes with runners on base and RISP. The detail is already recorded for each player (here are Trout's stats https://www.mlb.com/player/mike-trout-545361?stats=splits-r-hitting-mlb&year=2023),  just need a way to manipulate the ROB/RISP figures into a common product and then give it a cool name.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Look up RE24 and Win Probability Added.

I particularly like RE24, how many runs is your team expected to score when you come up vs how many runs your team is expected to score after you’re done batting.

[Blarg]

31 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Look up RE24 and Win Probability Added.

I particularly like RE24, how many runs is your team expected to score when you come up vs how many runs your team is expected to score after you’re done batting.

I wouldn't expect them to score any runs after the 3rd out.

[AngelsLakersFan]

20 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I wouldn't expect them to score any runs after the 3rd out.

Lots of 0’s after the third out 

[Support The Local Team]

Erstad was close to automatic when it came it getting that runner home from third with less than 2 outs. 

[Adam]

what is a stat that gets padded vs. angels relievers?