If the Angels managed to lock up Ohtani before Opening Day, would you consider this off-season a success?

[Second Base]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Not at all. 

Then why did you say it?

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Then why did you say it?

I was being polite.  

[Jay]

19 hours ago, Second Base said:

No. The measure of offseason success is how the team performs during the season. I will consider the off-season a success if the Angels make the playoffs. 

Ohtani alone is a contributor towards success, but not the answer. As everyone here knows, having the two best players on planet means Jack squat when they're not playing in October.

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I was being polite.  

Politeness means lying when unnecessary to people on the internet you don't know personally? 

Sounds like a personal problem. 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

My favorite part of that sketch is when he says, "You'll have plenty time to live in a van down by the river when..........you're living in a van down by the river!

[Stradling]

35 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Politeness means lying when unnecessary to people on the internet you don't know personally? 

Sounds like a personal problem. 

Sorry I hurt your feelings again. 

[angelsnationtalk]

yes and no. 

Yes, because Ohtani is an Angel for life

No because we are still a 3rd place team for 2023 and now the Angels will need to spend a hefty amount to get this team competitive for 2024-beyond. 

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

yes and no. 

Yes, because Ohtani is an Angel for life

No because we are still a 3rd place team for 2023 and now the Angels will need to spend a hefty amount to get this team competitive for 2024-beyond. 

Regardless they’ll have to spend a hefty amount to be competitive for 2024

[Second Base]

36 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Sorry I hurt your feelings again. 

Don't be silly Strad, you aren't important enough to hurt my feelings. Do you want to discuss your difference of opinion regarding the subject at hand or are you done?

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Don't be silly Strad, you aren't important enough to hurt my feelings. Do you want to discuss your difference of opinion regarding the subject at hand or are you done?

If you don’t think signing Ohtani equals success then we have nothing to discuss on the subject. You are basically the only one with that opinion.  Our team is worse going forward without him. It’s that simple. Not having him going forward makes every other off season for several years more challenging.  

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

If you don’t think signing Ohtani equals success then we have nothing to discuss on the subject. You are basically the only one with that opinion.  Our team is worse going forward without him. It’s that simple. Not having him going forward makes every other off season for several years more challenging.  

I suppose you missed the part where I said Ohtani contributes toward success, but isn't solely responsible for success or failure. 

The Angels are more than Shohei Ohtani. Is that simple. 

[Docwaukee]

I already consider this off season to be a success.  I think it could be more successful.  And signing Ohtani would be part of that.  

[Stradling]

22 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I suppose you missed the part where I said Ohtani contributes toward success, but isn't solely responsible for success or failure. 

The Angels are more than Shohei Ohtani. Is that simple. 

No shit. But they are worse going forward without him.  Signing him this off season makes the off season a success. 

[Second Base]

17 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I already consider this off season to be a success.  I think it could be more successful.  And signing Ohtani would be part of that.  

I think that's a fair middle ground. There's no denying Minasian has improved offensive depth. And Anderson isn't the best, but also is far from the worst investment of funds. 

[Duren, Duren]

Is it realistic to think the Angels will be more successful without Ohtani? To do that the current lineup would need a two high quality additions just to fill his loss. As well as career seasons from a bunch of current players. It is possible that other players do compensate collectively, but that would be an amazing story on it's own.

Replacing a Cy Young and MVP  finalist will be near impossible in the short term. At the plate you need a top five homerun  power hitter with speed. On the mound you need a double digit winner with absurd metrics. What would be the cost of acquiring those two players from elsewhere? In money and/or trade assets? 

Bur it is a team sport. Championships and playoff berths have happened many times when a star player has missed significant time. And there is no guarantee about Ohtani's health either. We have seen issues arise in his past. If he does sign for $500 million anywhere, there is a risk of franchise disaster with a major injury.

I think that extending him does make the off season a success because it amplifies the team goal of a playoff spot. I've seen enough heroes of mine like Joe Montana go to a different team without negatively affecting team performance. But he also wasn't all allstar cornerback either! 

In all sports I cheer the laundry first and foremost. Players come and player's go but never change your point of view. Ohtani may be a rare exception, but the team comes first.

 

 

 

[Second Base]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

No shit. But they are worse going forward without him.  Signing him this off season makes the off season a success. 

Round in circles you go....ok so if they don't sign Ohtani to an extension, is it a failure?

[Docwaukee]

How do you replace Shohei Ohtani?

What if you miss?

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Round in circles you go....ok so if they don't sign Ohtani to an extension, is it a failure?

No. 

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

yes and no. 

Yes, because Ohtani is an Angel for life

No because we are still a 3rd place team for 2023 and now the Angels will need to spend a hefty amount to get this team competitive for 2024-beyond. 

Where in Canada do you like to vacation the most?   

[Pancake Bear]

9 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

yes and no. 

Yes, because Ohtani is an Angel for life

No because we are still a 3rd place team for 2023 and now the Angels will need to spend a hefty amount to get this team competitive for 2024-beyond. 

Well now we know that you're shit at analysis. Glad you aren't the GM.

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No. 

Is it a success without an Ohtani extension?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

Is it a success without an Ohtani extension?

It can be yes. It also will be with an extension 

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It can be yes. It also will be with an extension 

So if I gathered this correctly, you have a shifting, but more nuanced view of success and failure. It can be influenced by multiple factors and must be measured over lengthy periods of time. Mine is more black and white. Yours can be difficult to define, which is fine, while mine is clearly defined. 

I don't think your opinion is stupid. I find it too inconsistent and emotionally driven to quantify. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Second Base said:

So if I gathered this correctly, you have a shifting, but more nuanced view of success and failure. It can be influenced by multiple factors and must be measured over lengthy periods of time. Mine is more black and white. Yours can be difficult to define, which is fine, while mine is clearly defined. 

I don't think your opinion is stupid. I find it too inconsistent and emotionally driven to quantify. 

Ok. I still believe what I believe in regards to signing Ohtani. 

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok. I still believe what I believe in regards to signing Ohtani. 

It wasn't my intention to change your mind. Just define where we're at.